Conversations with Diego Rivera

Conversations with Diego Rivera
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A year of weekly interviews (1949-1950) with artist Diego Rivera by poet Alfredo Cardona-Peña disclose Rivera’s iconoclastic views of life and the art world of that time. [/b][b] These intimate Sunday dialogues with what is surely the most influential Mexican artist of the twentieth century show us the free-flowing mind of a man who was a legend in his own time; an artist who escaped being lynched on more than one occasion, a painter so controversial that his public murals inspired movements, or, like the work commissioned by John D. Rockefeller, were ordered torn down. Here in his San Angelín studio, we hear Rivera’s feelings about the elitist aspect of paintings in museums, his motivations to create public art for the people, and his memorable, unedited expositions on the art, culture, and politics of Mexico. The book has seven chapters that loosely follow the range of the author’s questions and Rivera’s answers. They begin with childlike, yet vast questions on the nature of art, run through Rivera’s early memories and aesthetics, his views on popular art, his profound understanding of Mexican art and artists, the economics of art, random expositions on history or dreaming, and elegant analysis of art criticisms and critics. The work is all the more remarkable to have been captured between Rivera’s inhumanly long working stints of six hours or even days without stop. In his rich introduction, author Cardona-Peña describes the difficulty of gaining entrance to Rivera’s inner sanctum, how government funtionaries and academics often waited hours to be seen, and his delicious victory. At eight p. m. the night of August 12, a slow, heavy-set, parsimonious Diego came in to where I was, speaking his Guanajuato version of English and kissing women’s hands. I was able to explain my idea to him and he was immediately interested. He invited me into his studio, and while taking off his jacket, said, “Ask me…” And I asked one, two, twenty… I don't know how many questions ‘til the small hours of the night, with him answering from memory, with an incredible accuracy, without pausing, without worrying much about what he might be saying, all of it spilling out in an unconscious and magical manner. A series of Alfredo Cardona-Peña’s weekly interviews with Rivera were published in 1949 and 1950 in the Mexican newspaper, El Nacional, for which Alfredo was a journalist. His book of compiled interviews with introduction and preface, El Monstruo en su Laberinto, was published in Spanish in 1965. Finally, this extraordinary and rare exchange has been translated for the first time into English by Alfredo’s half-brother Alvaro Cardona Hine, also a poet. According to the translator’s wife, Barbara Cardona-Hine, bringing the work into English was a labor of love for Alvaro, the fulfillment of a promise made to his brother in 1971 that he did not get to until the year before his own death in 2016.

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Alfredo Cardona Peña. Conversations with Diego Rivera

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ENDORSEMENTS

Three months after I arrived from Guatemala to study in La Esmeralda, with a scholarship from the democratic government, I was asked to work as an assistant on Diego Rivera’s mural Dream of a Sunday Afternoon in Alameda Central Park. Diego was starting the mural in the Hotel del Prado where the famous phrase “God does not exist” scandalized Mexico.

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When it comes to technical matters, we shall refer only to his experiments and research into wax painting, better known as encaustic painting, whose most notable exponent was Delacroix (Lateral chapels of the Church of Saint Sulpice in Paris).

Rivera himself, following the exposition, discussed his own research into encaustic and al fresco techniques with the Mexican painter Juan O’Gorman. Here is the crux of the matter, revealing of the scientific and humanistic fervor of the artist: “I began to get interested,” he told his friend, “with wax and resin color around 1905, above all with the idea of substituting it for oil color, as Raphael did. In those days that was the novelty and excitement among painters working with the neo-impressionist tendencies, like the great Seurat and the Swiss-Italian Segantini. Nobody had found the procedure to cauterize and arrive at the proper encaustic means. So I resolved to go to the sources, which were Greek, Coptic, Egyptian and Roman, but these kept the secret of such painting a mystery. And so it was. There was nothing else to do but take recourse in Pliny’s writings on natural history. There is one chapter where he talks of painting methods. Montavert, Delacroix and others had consulted Pliny without success so I, with the audacity of one who knows nothing and lacks respect for classic authors, thought it might be a question of how to interpret the Latin text, and went to look for it at the National Library in Paris. Montavert said that Pliny mentioned encaustic as ‘an oil of pine and stone.’ Of course, nobody understood what that was all about. When I came upon that specific passage in Pliny I could hardly believe what I was reading. The key word was petroleum. Petroleum in Pliny’s time could only be obtained through exudation or in natural springs. What Pliny meant was really ‘hide,’ which Montavert had translated as ‘pine.’

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