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Evening Session TESTIMONY OF JAMES HERBERT MARTIN RESUMED

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The President's Commission reconvened at 9:20 p.m.

Mr. Dulles. The Committee will come to order.

Will you continue with the testimony?

Mr. Redlich. Thank you, Mr. Dulles.

Mr. Martin, at our last session I asked you whether you knew Jack Ruby, and you replied that you did. You indicated the brief contact that you have had with him and the two times, I believe, that you have been to his business establishment?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Apart from your own personal contact with Jack Ruby, do you have any other information about him and his activities which you would like to present before this Commission?

Mr. Martin. No, nothing that I definitely know about him. It is just he is a city character. He is very friendly to everyone.

Mr. Redlich. Please understand I am not asking you for rumors or that type of thing.

Mr. Martin. No, I know. Well, just what I know of him, he seems very friendly to everyone, and he is always around. You are liable to see him anywhere.

Mr. Redlich. Has he ever been to the motel that you have?

Mr. Martin. Yes, I mentioned that.

Mr. Redlich. Oh, yes.

Mr. Martin. He brought that twist board out there one time.

Mr. Redlich. Never been there as a guest?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. I hand you a copy of an invoice for a Revere recorder and a 1,200-foot reel of recording tape, and ask you if you have ever seen this?

Mr. Martin. Yes. That is a tape recorder that I rented and recorded the——

Mr. Redlich. I will ask you about it shortly. I would just like to know if you are familiar with it.

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Chairman, I am marking this as Commission Exhibit No. 332, and ask that it be admitted in evidence.

Mr. Dulles. Any objection?

Mr. Leech. No, sir.

Mr. Dulles. It may be admitted.

(The tape recorder and tape invoice referred to were marked Commission's Exhibit No. 332 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin, I hand you Commission Exhibit No. 332, and ask you to tell the Commission the conditions under which this invoice arose?

Mr. Martin. We had Marina's manuscript interpreted by Ilya Mamantov, and this was part of it. He was only able to interpret about half of it.

Mr. Redlich. He interpreted it and put it on tape?

Mr. Martin. And we recorded that on tape as he interpreted it.

Mr. Dulles. How do you mean interpreted?

Mr. Martin. He read it in English?

Mr. Dulles. Oh, I see, translated it.

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Dulles. From Russian into English?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. When I asked you this afternoon about your knowledge as to the accuracy of that story, I take it your reply was based upon this translation?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. And this only encompasses about half of the entire story, is that right?

Mr. Martin. It is more than half, it is about 15 pages, I guess.

Mr. Redlich. Did she consult with you at all in the preparation of that story?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. And there is nothing on this tape other than the English translation of that Russian story?

Mr. Martin. That is true.

Mr. Dulles. Do we have that translation as well as the copy of the original?

Mr. Redlich. Yes, Mr. Chairman, we have the original in Russian and then it was translated by Mr. Gopadze, of the Secret Service.

Mr. Martin. Actually our translation is very poor. He was not able to translate properly into English a lot of the phrases.

Mr. Dulles. Who is "he," Illa? Isn't that Ilya, by the way?

Mr. Martin. I am not sure.

Mr. Dulles. That is generally the Russian, I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. That is right.

Mr. Martin. It might be.

Mr. Dulles. Yes.

Mr. Martin. But he is professor at SMU. He has a list of titles that long. He is very well thought of. I think he works for Sun Oil Company, and is a well-respected individual. His wife and his mother, I believe, teach Russian also. I think his mother taught Mrs. Paine a good deal of her Russian.

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin, I would like to show you Commission Exhibit No. 325 which was introduced earlier today. Mr. Leech, I believe you have a photostat of this. If you could hand it to me during the course of this questioning. I would appreciate it.

Mr. Leech. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Thank you.

Could you tell the Commission what this document purports to state, and then I will ask you about individual items.

Mr. Martin. These are contracts that we have made both in writing and verbally for Marina Oswald's right, her story rights.

Mr. Redlich. And the first item appearing on Commission Exhibit No. 325 is a contract with Texitalia Films.

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Would you describe the terms and conditions of that contract?

Mr. Martin. Texitalia Films is planning a 60-minute technicolor documentary to start. They will pay $75,000 for World-Wide movie and the TV rights.

Mr. Dulles. Excuse me, is this a documentary of Marina's life?

Mr. Martin. Yes. Any movie or television appearances Marina would be paid $7,500 plus expenses for each appearance. Then for each personal appearance, for instance, the film opens in St. Louis on such and such a date and they would like for her to be there to make a personal appearance for the showing, the opening of the film, she would receive $1,500 plus expenses for each public appearance of that nature.

Mr. Redlich. And this contract according to this exhibit was signed on February 11, 1964?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Leech. By her?

Mr. Martin. No, by me acting for her.

Mr. Redlich. By you acting on behalf of Mrs. Oswald?

Mr. Martin. Yes, in accordance with my contract with her.

Mr. Redlich. The second item appearing here is a contract with Life magazine. Would you tell the Commission about that?

Mr. Martin. Life magazine purchased the rights, North American rights on a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald with a rifle and pistol, primarily for their use on a cover issue.

Mr. Dulles. That is what appeared on the recent cover issue, I guess, it was 2 weeks ago.

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir.

Now, that $5,000 has been paid. We have the $5,000 in an escrow account.

Mr. Redlich. Did you actually have in your possession the photograph, a copy of which appeared on the cover of Life magazine?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Could you tell us how this contract was consummated, in view of the fact that Life magazine apparently printed on its cover a photograph which you never possessed?

Mr. Martin. They knew the photographs belonged to Marina. They have a common law copyright, and the only way they could legally use the film is to purchase the rights from Marina.

Mr. Redlich. Did Life magazine indicate to you where they obtained the photograph?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Have you had conversations with other publications concerning that photograph?

Mr. Martin. Yes. I made the contact with the London Daily Mirror for the purchase of the British Commonwealth rights on that same photograph, and they guaranteed $2,200 plus 50–50 split on what they sold in the Commonwealth. It was restricted to the Commonwealth only.

However, the London Daily Mail came out with the photograph prior to the Mirror, and I was informed by Mr. Weggand of the London Daily Express that the Detroit Free Press had sold this photograph to the London Daily Mail for $500.

Mr. Redlich. Do you have any idea how the Detroit Free Press obtained this photograph?

Mr. Martin. No. I talked to Ken Murray, who I was informed was the attorney for the Detroit Free Press.

Mr. Redlich. Where did you talk to him?

Mr. Martin. At his home in Detroit.

Mr. Redlich. By phone?

Mr. Martin. By telephone. And he stated that the photograph was public property, and not covered under common law copyright. I asked him where he got the photo, and he said he got it at the same place as Life did, through a leak in the Commission. I talked to Life magazine attorney—I can't remember his name. It is a very odd name. It begins with an "S". Now, Murray said that Life had informed him that they had gotten it from a leak through the Commission, and I contacted Life and he denied saying anything of the sort to Murray.

However, Murray insisted that that is where he got that and he figured it was public domain.

Mr. Redlich. At the start of today's testimony when you mentioned the possibility of a leak with regard to this photograph, something that you said prior to the actual start of hearings, Mr. Rankin and I commented on that assertion.

Would you tell the Commission what we said?

Mr. Martin. That there was definitely not a leak in the Commission, and that you would certainly find out what Murray was talking about.

Mr. Redlich. Did you talk to an editor of the Detroit Free Press with regard to this photograph?

Mr. Martin. I called at night. It was at night, and I asked for the news editor. He was not in, so I talked to a reporter, and he couldn't say anything about it. He referred me to Ken Murray and gave me his home telephone number.

Mr. Redlich. The next item on Commission Exhibit No. 325 has reference to Stern Magazine.

Would you tell the Commission about that, please?

Mr. Martin. Stern Magazine we have been working with since the middle of December. They have been quite patient actually. For $12,500 they wanted Marina's memoirs and photographs, available photographs for use in Germany and Italy only. They wanted exclusive use in those two countries. Then they would endeavor to sell these same memoirs and pictures to other European countries, limiting it only to European countries, and take a 30 percent commission on any sales that they made, the remaining 70 percent going to Marina.

Mr. Redlich. Has this contract been signed?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Do you know when it was signed? Can you approximate the date?

Mr. Martin. I confirmed it by wire to them. It is in the exhibits.

Mr. Redlich. We have not introduced——

Mr. Martin. You haven't come to that yet.

Mr. Redlich. We do not intend to introduce the specific documents into the record, just this summary.

Mr. Leech. Give him an approximate date.

Mr. Redlich. You say it was confirmed by telegram.

Mr. Martin. Yes, it was confirmed by telegram to Spiegelberg.

Mr. Leech. When?

Mr. Martin. In New York. December 16 at 2:45 p.m.

Mr. Redlich. The next item on Commission Exhibit No. 325 also refers to Stern Magazine, an item of $2,650.

Could you comment on that?

Mr. Martin. This was a recent development wherein since they could not send an author in to talk to Marina, they purchased seven photographs for a total of $2,650, to take the memoirs later.

However, they will not hold off the memoirs forever.

Mr. Redlich. These seven photographs are photographs of what?

Mr. Martin. Of Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald together and separate.

Mr. Redlich. These were photographs which were not turned over to the Dallas police?

Mr. Martin. No. They were photographs that we were given prints of by the FBI. The FBI sent prints of these photographs to us.

Mr. Redlich. Am I correct in assuming that all of the photographs which were in the possession of Marina Oswald and Lee Harvey Oswald, either in his apartment or in the Paine's apartment, were turned over to the Dallas police?

Is that right?

Mr. Martin. As far as I know.

Mr. Redlich. To the best of your knowledge?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. And that any photographs which you have and which have been the basis of any contract are copies which were made available to you by some law enforcement authority?

Mr. Martin. Yes. Now, there was a check, there was a $250 cash down payment made on this $2,650. Then a check for $2,400; the check was stopped, payment on the check was stopped because of a letter written by William McKenzie saying that I had no authority to sign any contracts whatsoever for Marina, and that if they did use anything that I had sold them, litigation would follow immediately. So consequently they stopped payment on the check. I still have the check. It is still attached to the letter that was sent with it.

Mr. Dulles. Could I ask who is that check made out to?

Mr. Martin. Made out to me.

Mr. Dulles. To you as agent?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Dulles. Or to you just in your name?

Mr. Martin. I think it is just made out to me.

Mr. Dulles. I don't know if it is important.

Mr. Leech. You go ahead and I'll find it.

Mr. Martin. Under the contract all checks were supposed to be made payable to me. Then I would deduct my fee and forward the balance to Marina.

Mr. Redlich. The next item on Commission Exhibit No. 325 refers to Meredith Press.

Mr. Martin. The Meredith Press is a book publisher with their main office in Des Moines, Iowa. I had talked with Mr. Ted Purdy at great length and on numerous occasions by phone. We had negotiated world book rights for Marina Oswald's story. For this Meredith Press would pay a $25,000 advance to her. Then on the first printing would be a 10 percent commission of the retail price of the book.

On the second printing would be 12½ percent commission, and on the third and succeeding printings it would be 15 percent commission.

Now, of course, the commissions were to be deducted from the advance.

Mr. Redlich. And this was to be her life story?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Had you discussed with Marina at all the contents of this book? Had you started making any preparations for writing?

Mr. Martin. No. I am not a writer, and wouldn't know the first thing to do about a book. But we had negotiated with one writer, Isaac Don Levine, who Meredith Press felt would be the best writer available for this type of book because of the Russian attachment.

Mr. Redlich. When you told us this morning of your initial concern over the Nixon shooting incident, did it relate to these various agreements that you have been working on concerning the sale of Marina Oswald's story?

Mr. Martin. Did it relate to them?

Mr. Redlich. Yes.

Mr. Martin. How do you mean?

Mr. Redlich. Were you concerned about the publicity, the effect of the publicity of the Nixon incident on these various agreements which you were negotiating at the time?

Mr. Martin. No. As a matter of fact, it would enhance the price of it.

For instance, the Post magazine, the Saturday Evening Post, said that they would like to buy American serial rights if there was something in Marina's story that the Commission did not know.

Mr. Redlich. When did they tell you this?

Mr. Martin. Around the first of the year I guess.

Mr. Redlich. Around the first of the year. Did Marina know about this?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. This is the Saturday Evening Post you are talking about?

Mr. Martin. Yes. I talked to a Mr. Black.

Mr. Redlich. And the Saturday Evening Post said to you that they would buy the serial rights provided there was some information which would not be known to the Commission?

Mr. Martin. Yes. I told them there was no realm that would apply, and we closed negotiations.

Mr. Redlich. And you say you didn't relate this fact at all to Marina Oswald?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. These negotiations with the Post.

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Was there in fact to the best of your knowledge material which she did not in fact relate to this Commission?

Mr. Martin. Not to my knowledge other than the Nixon affair.

Mr. Redlich. And were you aware at the time she completed her testimony here that she had not related this information to the Commission?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Was there any connection between her failure to tell the Commission of the Nixon incident and the negotiations, the temporary negotiations that you had had with the Saturday Evening Post?

Mr. Martin. No, none whatsoever. That was closed off at least 30 days before she testified.

Mr. Redlich. Was there any attempt on your part or anyone acting on Marina Oswald's part that you know of to negotiate the sale of the information concerning the Nixon shooting incident?

Mr. Martin. No, not to my knowledge.

Mr. Redlich. When Marina—did Marina ever give you an explanation for why she did not tell the Commission about the Nixon incident?

Mr. Martin. No. I have never talked to her about that other than the first time that she told me about it. I asked John Thorne if she had mentioned it. I didn't discuss it with her.

Mr. Redlich. And since Marina Oswald's return from Washington after having testified here, you say you have never discussed the Nixon incident with Marina Oswald in any way?

Mr. Martin. No. I probably would have had there been sufficient time. Of course, she left my home the following day after she got back from Washington.

Mr. Redlich. When you say you probably would have, in what way?

Mr. Martin. Well, since she didn't mention it to the Commission, I feel the Commission should know about it.

Mr. Dulles. Did you know at this time she had not mentioned it to the Commission?

Mr. Martin. I asked John Thorne.

Mr. Dulles. Oh, you asked John Thorne?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. What did John Thorne say?

Mr. Martin. Said she had not mentioned it.

Mr. Redlich. Did you ask John Thorne why she had not mentioned it?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Did John Thorne offer any information as to why she had not mentioned it?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Do you know whether John Thorne had urged her to mention it?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. John Thorne was aware of the Nixon incident prior to Marina Oswald's appearance before this Commission, was he not?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Because you had apparently told him about that shortly after you learned about it in January.

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Did you discuss the Nixon incident with Robert Oswald after Marina Oswald's appearance before this Commission in February?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. You had not?

Mr. Martin. I don't know if I discussed it with him prior to the Commission's testimony or not. I may or I may not have. I don't know. I don't know whether I mentioned it to him or not.

Mr. Redlich. Coming back to Commission Exhibit No. 325, the next item under London Daily Mirror, am I correct in assuming that this is, that this item refers to the rifle photo which you discussed earlier in your testimony tonight?

Mr. Martin. Yes, that is right.

Mr. Redlich. Do you have anything to add with regard to that rifle photo that you have not already told us?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Did you discuss with Marina Oswald at any time this rifle photo and the circumstances under which it was taken.

Mr. Martin. I asked her at one time why he wanted a photograph taken of that type, and she said she didn't know. He just wanted pictures taken that way.

Mr. Redlich. Did she tell you when this photograph was taken in relationship to any other incidents such as the General Walker incident or the Richard Nixon incident?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Did you know where the photograph was taken?

Mr. Martin. I don't know, I don't even know if it was in Oak Cliff or not. I have an idea that it was in Oak Cliff but I don't know whether I know that or whether I have read it.

Mr. Redlich. When you say Oak Cliff, some of us don't live in Dallas.

Mr. Martin. It is a suburb of Dallas, a section of Dallas.

Mr. Redlich. Are you referring to the area where the Neely Street house was located?

To refresh your recollection, Mr. Martin, the Oswalds lived in two places in Dallas. One was on Elsbeth Street and the other on Neely. Are they both in Oak Cliff?

Mr. Martin. Yes, Elsbeth Street is right around the corner from Neely Street, I believe they lived in an apartment on Elsbeth.

It was a group of apartments in one building, and on Neely Street, I think, that was similar to a duplex.

Mr. Redlich. And you are not certain as to where this photograph which was the subject of these negotiations was taken?

Mr. Martin. No, except that the Elsbeth address, I believe, was a brick residence, I mean a brick apartment, it is a dark building, and the Neely Street address is a white building.

I believe the photo shows a white building.

Mr. Redlich. On the basis of that you would conclude the photograph was taken at which address?

Mr. Martin. At the Neely Street address.

Mr. Redlich. At the Neely Street address. When you were negotiating with various publications for this photograph, didn't anyone ask you when and where it was taken?

Mr. Martin. Yes, I told them that it was while they were living in Oak Cliff. I didn't say where or when.

Mr. Redlich. No one asked you.

Mr. Martin. And they apparently weren't concerned with the where or when.

Mr. Redlich. Did they ask you anything about the publication which Lee Oswald had in his hand?

Mr. Martin. Yes, and I told them that it was either the Militant or the Worker. I was not sure which one. I am not even sure whether either one.

Mr. Redlich. Your copy of the photograph did not indicate clearly which one it was?

Mr. Martin. Correct.

Mr. Redlich. Do you now know which one it was?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Dulles. Are you sure it is one of the two?

Mr. Martin. No, I am not. I assume that it would be one of the two.

Mr. Redlich. For the record it is the Militant.

Mr. Dulles. It is?

Mr. Redlich. Is there anything about the circumstances of this photograph, including the rifle, the pistol, the time, the place, anything concerning this photograph that you have not told this Commission about which you have knowledge?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. The last item on Commission Exhibit No. 325 is This Week magazine, $1,000. Could you tell us about that. At the conclusion of this list I will ask if there is anything else. We are now at This Week magazine.

Mr. Martin. When Marina was here in Washington, she had the press conference, and at the end of the press conference she mentioned, she made a statement "Now I go to church." On the way to the CBS studios we passed a Russian Orthodox Church, and she remarked about it, that she would like to come back and go inside, see what it looked like. Someone in This Week magazine caught that statement, and wanted to write a short article on Marina going to church, and that is what that is.

Mr. Redlich. What happened? Could you tell us how this article got written?

Mr. Martin. It hasn't been written.

Mr. Redlich. Did the reporter accompany Mrs. Oswald to church?

Mr. Martin. Oh, no. Actually when the television interview was over, we came back and went to the church, but the church was locked and we didn't get in at all. Now this contact was made after we left Washington. This Week magazine contacted us after, not while we were still here.

Mr. Redlich. And what was the subject matter of this article specifically supposed to be?

Mr. Martin. The title of it was supposed to be "I go to church," and it would be an article written on Marina going to church.

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin, the total figure on the bottom of Commission Exhibit No. 325 is $132,350. This presumably does not include any future royalties, is that correct?

Mr. Martin. That is correct.

Mr. Redlich. Have you made an estimate as to the total earnings which would accrue as a result of these contractual arrangements?

Mr. Martin. It should be approximately $300,000 at a maximum, depending on what American serial rights and British Commonwealth serial rights, Asiatic serial rights would bring.

Mr. Redlich. You say the maximum of $300,000?

Mr. Martin. I think so.

Mr. Leech. Of those contracts?

Mr. Redlich. That is what I am asking about are these.

Mr. Martin. Of these contracts, yes.

Mr. Redlich. Could you tell us about any other contractual arrangements that you have made or are negotiating on behalf of Marina Oswald?

Mr. Martin. There are no others. I will have to refer to things. We had an offer from Australia and also from New Zealand as far as this photograph is concerned. However, it was thrown to the wind by the Detroit Free Press, so they got it from Detroit Free Press, we have been offered—we have not received an offer. The Australian newspaper——

Mr. Dulles. Do you need these details do you think?

Mr. Redlich. I want to get the total figure, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Martin. Associated Newspapers Limited of Australia would like to have Australian rights to a book that Marina would write, and also the London Evening Standard would like to have the British rights, of course, to the picture of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin, Mr. Thorne has indicated to this Commission that he estimated that Marina's earnings would approach approximately $500,000. Would you comment on that estimate?

Mr. Martin. I think it might be a little high. Of course, if you take into consideration she has $68,000, close to $70,000 in contributions alone, then the advances on this Exhibit No. 325, that is $200,000 right there. I think $500,000 might be just a little bit high.

Mr. Redlich. The final document I would like to show you is a photostat of a letter which you presented to the Commission today, purporting to be a letter written in Russian together with an English translation. It starts, the English translation starts with the words "As the widow of Lee Oswald." I show you Commission Exhibit No. 333 and ask you if this is a photostat of the letter which you submitted to the Commission this morning.

Mr. Martin. Yes, apparently so.

Mr. Dulles. Who is that letter to?

Mr. Redlich. We don't know yet.

Mr. Dulles. You don't know yet?

Mr. Redlich. I will develop that in the questioning. I mark this Commission Exhibit No. 333, being a Russian letter and what purports to be its English translation and ask that it be admitted in evidence.

Mr. Dulles. Can you identify that any further than just a Russian letter?

Mr. Redlich. On the top appears a date, and the day of the month is the 20th. I am unable to tell what month it is.

Mr. Martin. But the year is 1964, and the words "Dallas, Texas" then appear under the date.

Mr. Dulles. That helps identify it.

Mr. Redlich. I ask that it be admitted in evidence.

Mr. Dulles. Any objection?

Mr. Leech. No objection.

Mr. Dulles. It is admitted.

(The photostats of a Russian letter with an English translation were marked Commission Exhibit No. 333 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin, with your permission I would just summarize the contents of this letter, and if I have summarized it inaccurately, just say so. This letter requests that the death penalty not be applied to Jack Ruby, the person who has been charged with the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald. Is that inaccurate?

Mr. Martin. No; that is correct.

Mr. Redlich. That is a correct summary of the contents of the letter?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Do you recall to whom that letter was written?

Mr. Martin. She originally wrote the letter to Melvin Belli.

Mr. Redlich. By "she" you mean Marina Oswald?

Mr. Martin. Marina. I advised her against——

Mr. Redlich. Melvin Belli?

Mr. Martin. Is the attorney for Jack Ruby. I advised her against such an action, because of the possibility of the letter itself in translating from Russian to English being misinterpreted and used in a manner that might be derogatory to Marina Oswald. I suggested that she send this letter to Henry Wade who would be the prosecutor in the case. Now whether she changed the salutation on the letter I don't know. I can't read Russian. And the salutation was not translated in the translation. The translation was made by Katya Ford.

Mr. Redlich. To the best of your knowledge has this letter ever been sent to anyone?

Mr. Martin. No sir, it hasn't.

Mr. Dulles. You say it has not been?

Mr. Martin. It has not been.

Mr. Dulles. That is your belief or you have knowledge that it has not been?

Mr. Martin. I have the original. Now if a letter has been sent, it would be a different letter.

Mr. Redlich. On the basis of your knowledge of Marina Oswald's handwriting, would you tell the Commission whether you believe that this letter is in her handwriting?

Mr. Martin. Yes, it is. I also observed her writing the letter.

Mr. Redlich. Are you aware of the fact that Marina Oswald discussed this letter when she appeared before this Commission?

Mr. Martin. I believe you mentioned it sometime today.

Mr. Redlich. Were you aware of it prior to your coming here?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Do you know why it has not been sent?

Mr. Martin. She decided that it was best not to be sent unless she actually thought that Ruby was going to get the death penalty. Actually a letter like that should go to the Governor of the State.

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin, do you have any additional information concerning the assassination of President Kennedy, Marina Oswald, or the assassination of her husband Lee Harvey Oswald which you would like to present before this Commission at this time?

Mr. Martin. No, I don't think so. Nothing.

Mr. Redlich. If it would be helpful for the work of this Commission for you to return to Washington and appear again before this Commission, would you be willing to do so?

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir.

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of this witness, unless Mr. Rankin does or you do.

Mr. Dulles. I would just like to ask a question about this letter I am just glancing over. Where did this letter paper come from? Is that some personal paper with a tree on it?

Mr. Martin. Yes. I bought that.

Mr. Dulles. You bought it for her?

Mr. Martin. At a drug store, yes, sir, at a drug store in Arlington.

Mr. Dulles. Is this another draft or is this just a copy?

Mr. Martin. This is the original of the copy.

Mr. Redlich. We have photographed what is now Commission Exhibit No. 333 and we are keeping the photostat. Mr. Martin, you will recall that at the start of today's proceedings Chief Justice Warren read into the record a copy of the letter which you received requesting certain notes, records, documents in connection with today's hearing. Have you made available to the Commission all of the material which was requested in that letter?

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir; I went through everything I had at home, and could find nothing else.

Mr. Redlich. If you should find anything else which you inadvertently failed to bring before this Commission, will you mail it to us for examination and we will return it to you.

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir; there is a Worker that I have.

Mr. Redlich. You mean by Worker the Daily Worker?

Mr. Martin. Yes. I think they dropped the "Daily."

Mr. Dulles. They are no longer daily.

Mr. Martin. It is called the Worker now. It has quite a lengthy article about Marina in it, and I will send that to you.

Mr. Redlich. And you will send anything that you may come across which you may have inadvertently failed to produce before this Commission?

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir.

Mr. Redlich. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Dulles. There were some questions that Senator Cooper had suggested. I don't know, have you looked those over? Have they been covered?

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Those have been covered.

Mr. Dulles. All been covered?

Mr. Redlich. Yes.

Mr. Dulles. Did Marina ever express to you her opinion as to the guilt or innocence of her husband in connection with the assassination of the President?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Dulles. What did she say?

Mr. Martin. She believes he was guilty. She believes he did it, and the first time she said it I questioned her as to why she thought he did it, and she said she just felt it. It was a woman's intuition. She didn't know the word intuition at that time. I had to look it up in the Russian-English Dictionary.

Mr. Dulles. Did she indicate any view as to whether he did it alone or had an accomplice or accomplices?

Mr. Martin. She remarked about the Walker incident, that that was definitely done alone, and that he always was alone. He never did anything with anyone else. I don't recall that she mentioned that specifically in the case of the assassination of the President. But she had made that remark before or during the interim about Walker.

Mr. Dulles. Did she ever at any time express to you any interest in returning to the Soviet Union or her desire to stay in the United States?

Mr. Martin. Well, she has always said that she wanted to stay in the United States. One time she said that she thought she would go back to Russia, and I asked her why and she said, well, she was just joking.

Mr. Dulles. Did she ever refer to you any letters she wrote to the Soviet Embassy with regard to a desire to return?

Mr. Martin. No. There was only one incident that she told me about was a letter to a friend in Russia.

Mr. Dulles. You mentioned that I think.

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Dulles. The one that she didn't put enough stamps on, enough postage on.

Mr. Martin. Yes, it came back "insufficient postage."

Mr. Dulles. Did she ever mention to you any names of any friends or associates of her husband that had not been discussed here at one time or another in this testimony, including the list of names that was read out to you?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Dulles. Do you know any other friends that Marina has other than those that have been discussed in this testimony?

Mr. Martin. No. I was trying to think a while ago about that, and I can't think of anyone else.

Mr. Dulles. That is all I have.

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Leech, would you like to ask Mr. Martin any questions at this time?

Mr. Leech. Not a word.

Mr. Dulles. Mr. Rhyne? Mr. Rankin, have you any further questions?

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, I merely wish to thank him for appearing voluntarily.

Mr. Dulles. I do thank you for coming and responding so fully to our questions.

Mr. Martin. Anything I can do.

Mr. Dulles. And if anything occurs to you or to your counsel as sometimes happens later, we will be very glad if you or your counsel will bring it to our attention.

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir; I certainly will.

Mr. Redlich. May I before we adjourn ask another question?

Mr. Dulles. Certainly.

Mr. Redlich. Have you ever discussed with Mrs. Marguerite Oswald the question of the guilt or innocence of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. Martin. No. The only time I was in contact with Marguerite Oswald was at the Inn of the Six Flags in Arlington, Tex., and I don't believe I really discussed anything with her. I was more on the sidelines and didn't enter into any discussions with her at all.

Mr. Redlich. And have you discussed with Robert Oswald the question of the guilt or innocence of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. Martin. Yes. Let's see, on one occasion the article by Mark Lane, I think it was in the National Observer, was printed in the National Observer, and I called Robert's attention to that. I believe he cited 15 points where he believed that Lee Oswald was innocent, and I remarked to Robert that in nearly 100 percent of those points they were just completely out of line. The brief I believe was taken from newspaper accounts, from various newspaper accounts of the assassination, and a number of them contradicted each other.

Mr. Redlich. Did Robert Oswald comment on this?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. For the record I believe the publication you are referring to is the National Guardian.

Mr. Martin. The National Guardian, yes.

Mr. Redlich. Is that your recollection now?

Mr. Martin. Yes, National Guardian.

Mr. Redlich. And Robert Oswald had no comment on this?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. We have no further questions.

Mr. Dulles. The Commission will stand adjourned, subject to call.

(Whereupon, at 10:20 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)

The Warren Commission Report: The Official Report on the Assassination of President Kennedy

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