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The President's Commission met at 10 a.m. on February 4, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.

Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman Cooper, Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, John J. McCloy, and Allen W. Dulles, members.

Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Norman Redlich, assistant counsel; Leon I. Gopadze and William D. Krimer, interpreters; and John M. Thorne, attorney for Mrs. Lee Harvey Oswald.

The Chairman. The Commission will be in order.

Mr. Rankin, will you proceed with the questioning of Mrs. Oswald.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, there are a number of things about some of the material we have been over, the period we have been over, that I would like to ask you about, sort of to fill in different parts of it. I hope you will bear with us in regard to that.

Were you aware of the diary that your husband had written and the book that he had typed?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did he hire a public stenographer to help him with his book?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he wrote his in longhand. He started it in Russia. But he had it retyped here because it had been in longhand.

Mr. Rankin. And do you know about when he started to have it retyped here?

Mrs. Oswald. We arrived in June. I think it was at the end of June.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know what happened to that book, or a copy of it?

Mrs. Oswald. At the present time it is—I don't know where—the police department or the FBI.

Mr. Rankin. And what was done with the diary? Do you know that?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know where it is now. I know that it was taken. But where it is now, I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. It was taken by either the FBI or the Secret Service or the police department?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know that, because I was not at home when all these things were taken.

Mr. Rankin. Would you tell us about what you know about their being taken. Were you away from home and someone else was there when various things belonging to you and your husband were taken from the house?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know where this book was, whether it was at Mrs. Paine's or in Lee's apartment, because I did not see it there. I was not at Mrs. Paine's because I lived in a hotel at that time in Dallas.

Mr. Rankin. What hotel was that?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. Was this diary kept by your husband daily, so far as you know?

Mrs. Oswald. In Russia?

Mr. Rankin. Well, Russia first.

Mrs. Oswald. It seems to me that he did not continue it here, that he had completed it in Russia. Not everything, but most of the time.

Mr. Rankin. And was it in his own handwriting?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. You have told us about an interview with the FBI, when your husband went out into the car and spent a couple of hours, in August of 1962. Do you recall whether there was an FBI interview earlier than that?

Mrs. Oswald. No, there wasn't. At least I don't know about it. Perhaps there was such a meeting, perhaps at the time we were in Fort Worth somebody had come, when we lived with Robert. One reporter wanted to interview Lee but Lee would not give the interview, and perhaps the FBI came, too.

Mr. Rankin. The particular interview that I am asking you about was June 26, according to information from the FBI.

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know about it. The first time I knew about the FBI coming was when we lived in Fort Worth.

Mr. Rankin. What rental did you pay on Mercedes Street?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have any difficulties while you were on Mercedes Street with your husband—that is, any quarreling there?

Mrs. Oswald. Only in connection with his mother, because of his mother.

Mr. Rankin. Were you having any problems about finances there, on Mercedes Street?

Mrs. Oswald. Of course we did not live in luxury. We did not buy anything that was not absolutely needed, because Lee had to pay his debt to Robert and to the government. But it was not particularly difficult. At least on that basis we had not had any quarrels.

Mr. Rankin. Could you tell us about De Mohrenschildt? Was he a close friend of your husband?

Mrs. Oswald. Lee did not have any close friends, but at least he had—here in America—he had a great deal of respect for De Mohrenschildt.

Mr. Rankin. Could you describe that relationship. Did they see each other often?

Mrs. Oswald. No, not very frequently. From time to time.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband tell you why he had so much respect for De Mohrenschildt?

Mrs. Oswald. Because he considered him to be smart, to be full of joy of living, a very energetic and very sympathetic person.

Mr. Rankin. We had a report that——

Mrs. Oswald. Excuse me. It was pleasant to meet with him. He would bring some pleasure and better atmosphere when he came to visit—with his dogs—he is very loud.

Mr. Rankin. Did you like him?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. Him and his wife.

Mr. Rankin. Did you understand any of the conversations between your husband and De Mohrenschildt?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, they were held in Russian.

Mr. Rankin. Did they discuss politics or the Marxist philosophy or anything of that kind?

Mrs. Oswald. Being men, of course, sometimes they talked about politics, but they did not discuss Marxist philosophy. They spoke about current political events.

Mr. Rankin. Did they have any discussions about President Kennedy or the Government in the United States at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. No, only George said that before she got married he knew Jackie Kennedy, that she was a very good, very sympathetic woman. Then he was writing a book, that is George, and with reference to that book he had written a letter to President Kennedy. This was with reference to the fact that John Kennedy had recommended physical exercise, walking and so on, and De Mohrenschildt and his wife had walked to the Mexican border. And he hoped that John Kennedy would recommend his book.

I don't know—perhaps this is foolishness.

Mr. Rankin. Did he say anything, or either of them say anything about President Kennedy at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. Nothing bad.

Mr. Rankin. When you referred to George, did you mean Mr. De Mohrenschildt?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I generally didn't believe him, that he had written a book. Sometimes he could say so, but just for amusement.

Mr. Rankin. Did De Mohrenschildt have a daughter?

Mrs. Oswald. He had several daughters, and many wives.

Mr. Rankin. Was one of his daughters named Taylor, her last name?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. That is a daughter of his first marriage. At the present time, I think he has—that is his fourth wife.

Mr. Rankin. And what was her——

Mrs. Oswald. It seems that that is the last one.

Mr. Rankin. What was her husband's name—the Taylor daughter?

Mrs. Oswald. Gary Taylor.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have anything to do with the Gary Taylors?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, at one time when I had to visit the dentist in Dallas, and I lived in Fort Worth, I came to Dallas and I stayed with them for a couple of days.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know about when that was?

Mrs. Oswald. October or November, 1962.

Mr. Rankin. Did Gary Taylor help you to move your things at one time, move you and your daughter?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he moved our things from Fort Worth to Dallas, to Elsbeth Street.

Mr. Rankin. Did he help you to move to Mrs. Hall's at any time, anyone else?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he did not move me to Mrs. Hall. But sometimes he came for a visit. Once or twice I think he came when we lived—to Mrs. Hall's, and once when we lived on Mercedes Street.

Mr. Rankin. What did he do when he came? Were those just visits?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, just visits. Just visits, with his wife and child.

Mr. Rankin. When the De Mohrenschildts came to the house and you showed them the rifle, did you say anything about it?

Mrs. Oswald. Perhaps I did say something to him, but I don't remember.

Mr. Rankin. Did you say anything like "Look what my crazy one has done? Bought a rifle" or something of that kind?

Mrs. Oswald. This sounds like something I might say. Perhaps I did.

Mr. Rankin. In the period of October 1962, you did spend some time with Mrs. Hall, did you not, in her home?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Will you tell us about how that happened?

Mrs. Oswald. When Lee found work in Dallas, Elena Hall proposed that I stay with her for some time, because she was alone, and I would be company.

Mr. Rankin. Did that have anything to do with any quarrels with your husband?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. During that period of October of 1962, when your husband went to Dallas to get work, do you know where he lived?

Mrs. Oswald. I know that for—at first, for some time he stayed at the YMCA, but later he rented an apartment, but I don't know at what address. Because in the letters which he wrote me, the return address was a post office box.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know whether he stayed during that period part of the time with Gary Taylor?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Where did you live while your husband was looking for work and staying at the YMCA and at this apartment that you referred to?

Mrs. Oswald. When he stayed at the YMCA he had already found work, and I was in Fort Worth.

Mr. Rankin. And where in Fort Worth were you staying then?

Mrs. Oswald. With Mrs. Hall.

Mr. Rankin. Did you notice a change, psychologically, in your husband during this period in the United States?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. When did you first notice that change?

Mrs. Oswald. At—at Elsbeth Street, in Dallas. After the visit of the FBI, in Fort Worth. He was for some time nervous and irritable.

Mr. Rankin. Did he seem to have two different personalities then?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Would you describe to the Commission what he did to cause you to think that he was changing?

Mrs. Oswald. Generally he was—usually he was quite as he always was. He used to help me. And he was a good family man. Sometimes, apparently without reason, at least I did not know reasons, if any existed, he became quite a stranger. At such times it was impossible to ask him anything. He simply kept to himself. He was irritated by trifles.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall any of the trifles that irritated him, so as to help us to know the picture?

Mrs. Oswald. It is hard to remember any such trifling occurrences, sometimes such a small thing as, for example, dinner being five minutes late, and I do mean five minutes—it is not that I am exaggerating—he would be very angry. Or if there were no butter on the table, because he hadn't brought it from the icebox, he would with great indignation ask, "Why is there no butter?" And at the same time if I had put the butter on the table he wouldn't have touched it.

This is foolishness, of course. A normal person doesn't get irritated by things like that.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, I do not ask these questions to pry into your personal affairs, but it gives us some insight into what he did and why he might have done the things he did.

I hope you understand that.

Mrs. Oswald. I understand.

Mr. Rankin. Could you tell us a little about when he did beat you because we have reports that at times neighbors saw signs of his having beat you, so that we might know the occasions and why he did such things.

Mrs. Oswald. The neighbors simply saw that because I have a very sensitive skin, and even a very light blow would show marks. Sometimes it was my own fault. Sometimes it was really necessary to just leave him alone. But I wanted more attention. He was jealous. He had no reason to be. But he was jealous of even some of my old friends, old in the sense of age.

Mr. Rankin. When he became jealous, did he discuss that with you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, of course.

Mr. Rankin. What did he say?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember.

Basically, that I prefer others to him. That I want many things which he cannot give me. But that was not so. Once we had a quarrel because I had a young man who was a boyfriend—this was before we were married, a boy who was in love with me, and I liked him, too. And I had written him a letter from here. I had—I wrote him that I was very lonely here, that Lee had changed a great deal, and that I was sorry that I had not married him instead, that it would have been much easier for me. I had mailed that letter showing the post office box as a return address. But this was just the time when the postage rates went up by one cent, and the letter was returned. Lee brought that letter and asked me what it was and forced me to read it. But I refused. Then he sat down across from me and started to read it to me. I was very much ashamed of my foolishness. And, of course, he hit me, but he did not believe that this letter was sincere. He asked me if it was true or not, and I told him that it was true. But he thought that I did it only in order to tease him. And that was the end of it. It was a very ill-considered thing.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall anything more that he said at that time about that matter?

Mrs. Oswald. Of course after he hit me, he said that I should be ashamed of myself for saying such things because he was very much in love with me. But this was after he hit me.

Generally, I think that was right, for such things, that is the right thing to do. There was some grounds for it.

Please excuse me. Perhaps I talk too much.

Mr. Rankin. When you had your child baptized, did you discuss that with your husband?

Mrs. Oswald. I knew that Lee was not religious, and, therefore, I did not tell him about it. I lived in Fort Worth at that time, while he lived in Dallas.

But when June was baptized, I told him about it, and he didn't say anything about it. He said it was my business. And he said, "Okay, if you wish." He had nothing against it. He only took offense at the fact that I hadn't told him about it ahead of time.

Mr. Rankin. Are you a member of any church?

Mrs. Oswald. I believe in God, of course, but I do not go to church—first because I do not have a car. And, secondly, because there is only one Russian Church. Simply that I believe in God in my own heart, and I don't think it is necessary to visit the church.

Mr. Rankin. While your husband—or while you were visiting the Halls, did your husband tell you about getting his job in Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I knew about it before he left for Dallas, that he already had work there.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall whether your husband rented the apartment in Dallas about November 3, 1962?

Mrs. Oswald. For him?

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mrs. Oswald. He had told me that he rented a room, not an apartment. But that was in October.

What date I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. And had he obtained an apartment before you went to Dallas to live with him?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. Cleaned everything up.

Mr. Rankin. So that you would have gone to Dallas to live with him some time on or about the date that he rented that apartment?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. After you went to live with him in the apartment at Dallas, did you separate from him again and go to live with somebody else?

Mrs. Oswald. Only after this quarrel. Then I stayed with my friends for one week. I had already told you about that.

Mr. Rankin. That is the Meller matter?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall that you called Mrs. Meller and told her about your husband beating you and she told you to get a cab and come to stay with her?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, but he didn't beat me.

Mr. Rankin. And you didn't tell her that he had beat you, either?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't think so. Perhaps she understood it that he had beaten me, because it had happened.

Mr. Rankin. Can you give us any more exact account of where your husband stayed in the period between October 10 and November 18, 1962?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember his exact address. This was a period when I did not live with him.

I am asking about which period is it. I don't remember the dates.

Mr. Rankin. The period that he rented the apartment was November 3, so that shortly after that, as I understood your testimony, you were with him, from November 3, or about November 3 on to the 18th. Is that right?

Mrs. Oswald. From November 3 to November 18, 1962? On Elsbeth Street? No, I was there longer.

Mr. Rankin. And do you recall the date that you went to Mrs. Hall's, then?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't remember. The day when he rented the apartment was a Sunday. But where he lived before that, I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. After you went to live with him in the apartment, around November 3, how long did you stay before you went to live with your friend?

Mrs. Oswald. Approximately a month and a half. Perhaps a month. I am not sure.

Mr. Rankin. And when you were at Fort Worth, and he was living in Dallas, did he call you from time to time on the telephone?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he called me and he wrote letters and sometimes he came for a visit.

Mr. Rankin. And during that time, did he tell you where he was staying?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he said that he had rented a room, but he did not tell me his address.

I want to help you, but I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. Did you think there was something in your husband's life in America, his friends and so forth, that caused him to be different here?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he had no friends who had any influence over him. He himself had changed by comparison to the way he was in Russia. But what the reason for that was, I don't know.

Am I giving sufficient answers to your questions?

Mr. Rankin. You are doing fine.

Did your consideration of a divorce from your husband have anything to do with his ideas and political opinions?

Mrs. Oswald. No. The only reasons were personal ones with reference to our personal relationship, not political reasons.

Mr. Rankin. In your story you say that what was involved was some of his crazy ideas and political opinions. Can you tell us what you meant by that?

Mrs. Oswald. This was after the case, after the matter of the divorce. I knew that Lee had such political leanings.

Mr. Rankin. With regard to your Russian friends, did you find the time when they came less to see you and didn't show as much interest in you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Can you give us about the time, just approximately when you noticed that difference?

Mrs. Oswald. Soon after arriving in Dallas. Mostly it was De Mohrenschildt who visited us. He was the only one who remained our friend. The others sort of removed themselves.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know why that was?

Mrs. Oswald. Because they saw that Lee's attitude towards them was not very proper, he was not very hospitable, and he was not glad to see them. They felt that he did not like them.

Mr. Rankin. Will you describe what you observed that caused you to think this, or how your husband acted in regard to these friends?

Mrs. Oswald. He told me that he did not like them, that he did not want them to come to visit.

Mr. Rankin. Did he show any signs of that attitude towards them?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he was not very talkative when they came for a visit. Sometimes he would even quarrel with them.

Mr. Rankin. When he quarreled with them, was it in regard to political ideas or what subjects?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, they would not agree with him when he talked on political matters.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall any conversation that you can describe to us?

Mrs. Oswald. Of course it is difficult to remember all the conversations. But I know that they had a difference of opinion with reference to political matters. My Russian friends did not approve of everything. I am trying to formulate it more exactly. They did not like the fact that he was an American who had gone to Russia. I think that is all. All that I can remember.

Mr. Rankin. What did they say about——

Mrs. Oswald. Excuse me. Simply I would be busy, and I didn't listen to the conversation.

Mr. Rankin. Can you recall anything else about the conversation or the substance of it?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. When did you first consider the possibility of returning to the Soviet Union?

Mrs. Oswald. I never considered that, but I was forced to because Lee insisted on it.

Mr. Rankin. When you considered it, as you were forced to, by his insistence, do you know when it was with reference to your first request to the Embassy, which was February 17, 1963?

Mrs. Oswald. February 17?

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mrs. Oswald. I think it was a couple of weeks before that, at the beginning of February.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband know about the letter you sent to the Embassy on February 17?

Mrs. Oswald. Of course. He handed me the paper, a pencil, and said, "Write."

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you what to put in the letter, or was that your own drafting?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I knew myself what I had to write, and these were my words. What could I do if my husband didn't want to live with me? At least that is what I thought.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ever have arguments with your husband about smoking and drinking wine, other things like that?

Mrs. Oswald. About drinking wine, no. But he didn't like the fact that I smoked, because he neither smoked nor drank. It would have been better if he had smoked and drank.

Mr. Rankin. Can you tell us approximately when you first met Ruth Paine?

Mrs. Oswald. Soon after New Years—I think it was in January.

Mr. Rankin. Would that be 1963?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Can you describe the circumstances when you met her?

Mrs. Oswald. We were invited, together with George De Mohrenschildt and his wife, to the home of his friend, an American. And Ruth was acquainted with that American. She was also visiting there. And there were a number of other people there, Americans.

Mr. Rankin. Who was this friend? Do you recall?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember his last name. If you would suggest, perhaps I could say.

Mr. Rankin. Was that Mr. Glover?

Mrs. Oswald. What is his first name?

Mr. Rankin. Everett.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I don't know his last name.

Mr. Rankin. Did you talk to Mrs. Paine in Russian at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. A little, yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did Mrs. Paine ever visit you at Elsbeth Street?

Mrs. Oswald. At Neely, on Neely Street.

Mr. Rankin. But not at Elsbeth?

Mrs. Oswald. We moved soon after that acquaintance.

Mr. Rankin. How did your husband treat June? Was he a good father?

Mrs. Oswald. Oh, yes, very good.

Mr. Rankin. Did you notice any difference in his attitude towards your child after you saw this change in his personality?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Will you describe to the Commission how your husband treated the baby, and some of his acts, what he did?

Mrs. Oswald. He would walk with June, play with her, feed her, change diapers, take photographs—everything that fathers generally do.

Mr. Rankin. He showed considerable affection for her at all times, did he?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. If I would punish June, he would punish me.

Mr. Rankin. When did you first meet Michael Paine?

Mrs. Oswald. After I became acquainted with Ruth and she visited me for the first time, she asked me to come for a visit to her. This was on a Friday. Her husband, Michael, came for us and drove us to their home in Irving.

Mr. Rankin. They were living together at that time, were they?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did Michael Paine know Russian?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. At the time of the Walker incident, do you recall whether your husband had his job or had lost it?

Mrs. Oswald. You had said that this had happened on a Wednesday, and it seems to me that it was on a Friday that he was told that he was discharged. He didn't tell me about it until Monday.

Mr. Rankin. But it was on the preceding Friday that he was discharged, was it not?

Mrs. Oswald. No, not the preceding Friday—the Friday after the incident. That is what he told me.

Mr. Rankin. If he had lost his job before the Walker incident, you didn't know it then?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. On the day of the Walker shooting did he appear to go to work as usual?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And when did he return that day, do you recall?

Mrs. Oswald. Late at night, about 11.

Mr. Rankin. He did not come home for dinner then, before?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he had come home, and then left again.

Mr. Rankin. Did you notice any difference in his actions when he returned home and had dinner?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did he appear to be excited, nervous?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he was quite calm. But it seemed to me that inside he was tense.

Mr. Rankin. How could you tell that?

Mrs. Oswald. I could tell by his face. I knew Lee. Sometimes when some thing would happen he wouldn't tell me about it, but I could see it in his eyes, that something had happened.

Mr. Rankin. And you saw it this day, did you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. When did he leave the home after dinner?

Mrs. Oswald. I think it was about 7. Perhaps 7:30.

Mr. Rankin. Did you observe whether he took any gun with him?

Mrs. Oswald. No. He went downstairs. We lived on the second floor. He said, "Bye-bye."

Mr. Rankin. Did you look to see if the gun had been taken when he did not return?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I didn't look to see.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, we have gone our hour.

The Chairman. Yes. I think we will take a 10 minute recess now, so you might refresh yourself.

Mrs. Oswald. Thank you.

(Brief recess.)

The Chairman. The Commission will be in order. Mr. Rankin, you may continue.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, you told us about your knowledge about the trip to Mexico and said that you were under oath and were going to tell us all about what you knew.

Did your husband ever ask you not to disclose what you knew about the Mexican trip?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And when was that?

Mrs. Oswald. Before he left. I had remained and he was supposed to leave on the next day, and he warned me not to tell anyone about it.

Mr. Rankin. After he returned to Dallas from his Mexico trip, did he say anything to you then about not telling he had been to Mexico?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he asked me whether I had told Ruth about it or anyone else, and I told him no, and he said that I should keep quiet about it.

Mr. Rankin. I will hand you Exhibit 1 for identification, and ask you if you recall seeing that document before.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, this is the note that I found in connection with the Walker incident.

Mr. Rankin. That you already testified about?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And there is attached to it a purported English translation.

The Chairman. Do you want that marked and introduced at this time, Mr. Rankin?

Mr. Rankin. Yes, I would like to offer the document.

The Chairman. The document may be marked Exhibit 1 and offered in evidence.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Rankin. Can you tell us what your husband meant when he said on that note, "The Red Cross also will help you."

Mrs. Oswald. I understand that if he were arrested and my money would run out, I would be able to go to the Red Cross for help.

Mr. Rankin. Had you ever discussed that possibility before you found the note?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know why he left you the address book?

Mrs. Oswald. Because it contained the addresses and telephone numbers of his and my friends in Russia and here.

Mr. Rankin. And you had seen that book before and knew its contents, did you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. I will hand you Exhibit 2 for identification and ask you if you know what that is.

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know whether or not that is a photograph of the Walker house in Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. I didn't see it—at least—taken from this view I can't recognize it. I know that the photograph of Walker's home which I saw showed a two-story house. But I don't recognize it from this view. I never saw the house itself at any time in my life.

Mr. Rankin. Does Exhibit 2 for identification appear to be the picture that you described yesterday of the Walker house that you thought your husband had taken and put in his book?

Mrs. Oswald. No. Perhaps this was in his notebook. But I don't remember this particular one.

The Chairman. Mr. Rankin, do you want this in the record?

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, she hasn't been able to identify that sufficiently.

Mrs. Oswald. Excuse me. Perhaps there are some other photographs there that I might be able to recognize.

Mr. Rankin. I will present some more to you, and possibly you can then pick out the Walker house.

Mrs. Oswald. I know these photographs.

Mr. Rankin. I now hand you a photograph which has been labeled Exhibit 4 for identification. I ask if you can identify the subject of that photograph, or those photographs.

Mrs. Oswald. All of them?

Mr. Rankin. Whichever ones you can.

Mrs. Oswald. I know one shows Walker's house. Another is a photograph from Leningrad. P-3—this is probably New Orleans. P-4—Leningrad. It is a photograph showing the castle square in Leningrad.

Mr. Rankin. Can you point out by number the photograph of the Walker house?

Mrs. Oswald. P-2.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know whether the photographs on Exhibit 4 for identification were part of your husband's photographs?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, I offer Exhibit 4 for identification in evidence.

The Chairman. It may be admitted.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit 2, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Dulles. What is being offered—the whole of it, or just P-2?

Mr. Rankin. No, all of it—because she identified the others, too, as a part of the photographs that belonged to her husband. And she pointed out P-2 as being the Walker residence.

When did you first see this photograph of the Walker residence, P-2, in this Exhibit 2?

Mrs. Oswald. After the Walker incident Lee showed it to me.

Mr. Rankin. And how did you know it was a photograph of the Walker residence?

Mrs. Oswald. He told me that.

Mr. Rankin. I hand you Exhibit 3 for identification. I ask you if you can identify the photographs there.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, these are all our photographs. P-1 is Walker's house. P-4 and P-3 is a photograph showing me and a girlfriend of mine in Minsk, after a New Year's party, on the morning, on January 1. Before I was married. This was taken early in the morning, after we had stayed overnight in the suburbs. P-5 shows Paul—Pavel Golovachev. He is assembling a television set. He sent us this photograph. He is from Minsk. He worked in the same factory as Lee did.

Mr. Rankin. Can you tell us which one is the picture of the Walker house on that exhibit?

Mrs. Oswald. P-1.

Mr. Rankin. And when did you first see that exhibit, P-1, of Exhibit 3?

Mrs. Oswald. Together with the other one. P-2 and P-6, I know that they are Lee's photographs, but I don't know what they depict.

Mr. Rankin. Were you shown the P-1 photograph of that Exhibit 3 at the same time you were shown the other one that you have identified regarding the Walker house?

Mrs. Oswald. It seems to me that that is so. I don't remember exactly. It is hard to remember.

Mr. Rankin. And was that the evening after your husband returned from the Walker shooting?

Mrs. Oswald. No. This was on one of the succeeding days.

Mr. Rankin. By succeeding, you mean within two or three days after the shooting?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence Exhibit 3.

The Chairman. It may be admitted.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 3, and was received in evidence.)

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember the photograph, the first one that you showed me. I only assumed that was Walker's house.

Mr. Rankin. But the other ones, you do remember those photographs?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, the others I do.

Mr. Rankin. When you say you do not remember the picture of the Walker house, you are referring to the Exhibit 2 for identification that we did not offer in evidence, that I will show you now?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall that your husband showed you any other exhibits that were pictures of the Walker house at the time he discussed the Walker shooting with you, beyond those that I have shown you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. I shall hand you Exhibit——

Mrs. Oswald. There was some railroad—not just a photograph of a house. Perhaps there were some others. There were several photographs.

Mr. Rankin. I shall hand you Exhibit 4 for identification——

Mrs. Oswald. One photograph with a car.

Mr. Rankin. ——if you can recall the photographs on that exhibit.

Mrs. Oswald. As for P-1 and P-2, I don't know what they are.

P-3, that is Lee in the Army.

P-4, I don't know what that is.

P-5, I did see this photograph with Lee—he showed it to me after the incident.

Mr. Rankin. When your husband showed you the photograph P-5, did he discuss with you what that showed, how it related to the Walker shooting?

Mrs. Oswald. No. I simply see that this is a photograph of a railroad. It was in that book. And I guessed, myself, that it had some sort of relationship to the incident.

Mr. Rankin. I offer in evidence photographs P-3 and P-5 on this exhibit.

The Chairman. They may be admitted, and take the next number.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 4, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Rankin. Now, I shall hand you Exhibit 6 for identification and ask you if you recognize those two photographs.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. These photographs I know, both of them. They seem to be identical. Walker's house.

Mr. Rankin. When did you first see those exhibits?

Mrs. Oswald. After the incident.

Mr. Rankin. About the same time that you saw the other pictures of the Walker house that you have described?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband tell you why he had these photographs?

Mrs. Oswald. He didn't tell me, but I guessed, myself—I concluded myself that these photographs would help him in that business.

Mr. Rankin. That is the business of the shooting at the Walker house?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. I offer in evidence the two photographs in this exhibit.

The Chairman. They may be admitted and take the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 5, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Rankin. Before you told the Commission about the Walker shooting, and your knowledge, did you tell anyone else about it?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, to the members of the Secret Service and the FBI.

Mr. Rankin. Did you tell your mother-in-law?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I also told his mother about it.

Mr. Rankin. When did you tell his mother about the incident?

Mrs. Oswald. After Lee was arrested, on Saturday—he was arrested on Friday. I don't remember when I met with his mother—whether it was on the same Friday—yes, Friday evening. I met her at the police station. From there we went to Ruth Paine's where I lived at that time. And she remained overnight, stayed overnight there. I had a photograph of Lee with the rifle, which I gave. At that time I spoke very little English. I explained as best I could about it. And that is why I showed her the photograph. And I told her that Lee had wanted to kill Walker.

Mr. Rankin. Now, turning to the period when you were in New Orleans, did you write to the Russian Embassy about going to Russia, returning to Russia at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Was that about the first part of July, that you wrote?

Mrs. Oswald. Probably.

Mr. Rankin. And then did you write a second letter to follow up the first one?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. I hand you Exhibit 6 for identification and ask you if that is the first letter that you sent to the Embassy. Take your time and look at it.

Mrs. Oswald. This was not the first letter, but it was the first letter written from New Orleans.

Mr. Rankin. Will you examine the photostat that has just been handed to you, and tell us whether or not that was the first letter that you wrote to the Embassy about this matter?

Mrs. Oswald. No, this is a reply to my first letter.

Mr. Rankin. Will you examine the one that you now have, and state whether that is the first letter?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, this was the first. This was only the declaration. But there was a letter in addition to it.

Mr. Rankin. The declaration was a statement that you wished to return to the Soviet Russia?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, about granting me a visa.

Mr. Rankin. And what date does that bear?

Mrs. Oswald. It is dated March 17, 1963.

Mr. Rankin. And did you send it with your letter about the date that it bears?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

I don't know—perhaps a little later, because I was not very anxious to send this.

Mr. Rankin. But you did send it?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And it might have been within a few days or a few weeks of that time?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Dulles. Do we have the date of the second letter?

Mr. Rankin. I want to go step by step.

Mr. Dulles. Yes, I understand. That is not introduced yet.

Mr. Rankin. It might be confusing if we get them out of order.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, this is the first letter.

Mr. Rankin. Now, the photostatic document that you have just referred to as being the first letter, does it bear a date?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall the date?

Mrs. Oswald. It says there the 17th of February.

Mr. Rankin. And do you know that that letter had attached to it your declaration that you just referred to?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, it seems to me. Perhaps it was attached to the next letter. I am not sure.

Mr. Rankin. This letter of February 17 that you referred to as the first letter is in your handwriting?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Will you examine the translation into English that is attached to it and inform us whether or not that is a correct translation?

Mrs. Oswald. I can't do that, because——

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Interpreter, can you help us in that regard, and tell her whether it is a correct translation?

Mr. Krimer. If I may translate it from the English, she could check it.

Mr. Rankin. Would you kindly do that?

Mrs. Oswald. That is a quite correct translation. I didn't want to, but I had to compose some such letters.

Mr. Rankin. I offer in evidence the photostatic copy of the letter in Russian as Exhibit 6.

The Chairman. Together with the translation that is attached to it?

Mr. Rankin. Together with the translation that is attached to it as Exhibit 7.

The Chairman. It may be admitted and take the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit Nos. 6 and 7, respectively, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Rankin. I hand you again the declaration, Exhibit 8, and ask you if that accompanied the first letter, Exhibit 6, that you have referred to?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember whether it accompanied the first letter or the second letter with which I had enclosed some photographs and filled out questionnaires.

Mr. Rankin. I hand you Exhibit 9 and ask you if that is the second letter that you have just referred to.

Mrs. Oswald. No, this was perhaps the third. Perhaps I could help you, if you would show me all the letters, I would show you the sequence.

Mr. Rankin. I hand you Exhibit 9, dated March 8, 1963, and ask you if you can tell whether that is the letter which accompanied the declaration.

Mrs. Oswald. This is a reply from the Embassy, a reply to my first letter.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, may we have a short recess to get the original exhibits that we have prepared, and I think we can expedite our hearing.

The Chairman. Very well. We will have a short recess.

(Brief recess.)

The Chairman. The Commission will come to order. We will proceed.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, we will see if we have these in proper order now.

I will call your attention to the photostats of the declaration and the accompanying papers that I shall now call Exhibit 8 to replace the references to Exhibit 8 and 9 that we made in prior testimony, and ask you to examine that and see if they were sent together by you to the Embassy.

Mrs. Oswald. I sent this after I received an answer from the Embassy, an answer to my first letter. This is one and the same. Two separate photostats of the same declaration. All of these documents were attached to my second letter after the answer to my first.

Mr. Rankin. I call your attention to Exhibit 9, and ask you if that is the answer to your first letter that you have just referred to.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, this is the answer to that letter.

Mr. Rankin. Will you compare the translation?

Mrs. Oswald. The only thing is that the address and the telephone number of the Embassy are not shown in the Russian original. They are in the translation.

Mr. Rankin. Otherwise the translation is correct, is it?

Mrs. Oswald. Otherwise, yes.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, I ask leave to substitute the Exhibit No. 8 for what I have called 9, as the reply of the Embassy, so that we won't be confused about the order of these.

The Chairman. The correction may be made.

Mr. Rankin. I offer in evidence the original and the translation of Exhibit 8, except for the address of the Embassy, which was not on the original.

The Chairman. It may be admitted, and take the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 8, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Rankin. Now, as I understand, what I will call Exhibit 9 now, to correct the order in which these letters were sent to the Embassy, was your response to the letter of the Embassy dated March 8, is that correct?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Will you compare the translation with the interpreter and advise us if it is correct?

Mr. Krimer. It says, "Application" in the translation; the Russian word is "Declaration".

Mr. Rankin. Will you note that correction, Mr. Krimer, please?

Mr. Krimer. In pencil?

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mr. Krimer. Crossing out the word "application".

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Krimer. Sir, this was a printed questionnaire, and there is a translator note on here which states that since printed questions are given both in Russian and English translation, only the answer portion of the document is being translated.

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Rankin. You have now examined Exhibit 9 and the translation into English from that exhibit where it was in Russian and compared them with the interpreter, have you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, correct.

Mr. Rankin. Do you find the translation is correct?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. I offer in evidence Exhibit 9, being the Russian communications, and the English translations.

The Chairman. The documents may be admitted with the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 9, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, do you recall that in the letter from the Embassy of March 8, which is known as Commission's Exhibit 8, that you were told that the time of processing would take 5 to 6 months?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did you discuss that with your husband?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And about when did you do that?

Mrs. Oswald. What is the date of that letter?

Mr. Rankin. March 8.

Mrs. Oswald. At that time we did not discuss it. We discussed it in New Orleans. Or more correctly, we thought that if everything is in order, I would be able to leave before the birth of my second child.

Mr. Rankin. And did you discuss that idea with your husband?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And you think that you discussed it with him while you were at New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall that it is also requested in the letter of March 8 from the Embassy, Commission's Exhibit 8, that you furnish one or two letters from relatives residing in the Soviet Union who were inviting you to live with them?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, but I didn't have any such letters and I did not enclose any.

Mr. Rankin. You never did send such letters to the Embassy, did you?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. After you sent Exhibit 9 to the Embassy, did you have further correspondence with them?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. I will hand you Exhibit 10, a letter purporting to be from the Embassy dated April 18, and ask you if you recall that.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I remember that.

Mr. Rankin. Will you please compare the translation with the Russian?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, the translation is correct.

Mr. Rankin. We offer the exhibit in evidence, together with the translation.

The Chairman. It may be admitted with the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 10, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Rankin. Did you note that the Embassy invited you to come and visit them personally?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ever do that?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. I hand you a letter purporting to be from the Embassy, dated June 4, marked Exhibit 11, and ask you if you recall receiving that?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. This is a second request to visit the Embassy.

Mr. Rankin. Will you please compare the translation with the Russian?

Mrs. Oswald. Correct.

Mr. Rankin. We offer in evidence Exhibit 11, being the Russian letter from the Embassy together with the English translation.

The Chairman. It may be admitted and take the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 11, and received in evidence.)

The Chairman. We will now recess for lunch.

The Commission will reconvene at 2 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the Commission recessed.)