Читать книгу The Warren Commission Report: The Official Report on the Assassination of President Kennedy - U.S. Government - Страница 9

Table of Contents

The President's Commission reconvened at 2 p.m.

The Chairman. All right. Let us proceed.

(The Chairman administered the oath to Alvin I. Mills, Stenotype Reporter.)

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Reporter, do you have the last questions?

In the future, would you do that, so we can refresh the witness about the last couple of questions on her testimony? I think it will make it easier for her, if she doesn't have to try to remember all the time.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, as I recall you were telling us about these developments at Neely Street when you found that your husband was suggesting that you go back to Russia alone and you discussed that matter, and you thought it had something to do with the idea he had, which I understood you have discovered as you looked back or thought back later but didn't know at the time fully. Is that right?

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Rankin. Could you tell us those things that you observed that caused you to think he had something in mind at that time, and I will ask you later, after you tell us, those that you discovered since or that you have obtained more light on since.

Mrs. Oswald. At that time I did not think anything about it. I had no reasons to think that he had something in mind. I did not understand him at that time.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall the first time that you observed the rifle?

Mrs. Oswald. That was on Neely Street. I think that was in February.

Mr. Rankin. How did you learn about it? Did you see it some place in the apartment?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, Lee had a small room where he spent a great deal of time, where he read—where he kept his things, and that is where the rifle was.

Mr. Rankin. Was it out in the room at that time, as distinguished from in a closet in the room?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, it was open, out in the open. At first I think—I saw some package up on the top shelf, and I think that that was the rifle. But I didn't know. And apparently later he assembled it and had it in the room.

Mr. Rankin. When you saw the rifle assembled in the room, did it have the scope on it?

Mrs. Oswald. No, it did not have a scope on it.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have any discussion with your husband about the rifle when you first saw it?

Mrs. Oswald. Of course I asked him, "What do you need a rifle for? What do we need that for?"

He said that it would come in handy some time for hunting. And this was not too surprising because in Russia, too, we had a rifle.

Mr. Rankin. In Russia did you have a rifle or a shotgun?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know the difference. One and the other shoots. You men. That is your business.

The Chairman. My wife wouldn't know the difference, so it is all right.

Mrs. Oswald. I have never served in the Army.

Mr. Rankin. Did you discuss what the rifle cost with your husband?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Was the rifle later placed in a closet in the apartment at Neely Street?

Mrs. Oswald. No, it was always either in a corner, standing up in a corner or on a shelf.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know what happened to the gun that you had in Russia? Was it brought over to this country?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he sold it there. I did not say so when I had the first interviews. You must understand this was my husband. I didn't want to say too much.

Mr. Rankin. Is this rifle at Neely Street the only rifle that you know of that your husband had after you were married to him?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ever show that rifle to the De Mohrenschildts?

Mrs. Oswald. I know that De Mohrenschildts had said that the rifle had been shown to him, but I don't remember that.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street at any time?

Mrs. Oswald. You must know that the rifle—it isn't as if it was out in the open. He would hang a coat or something to mask its presence in the room. And sometimes when he walked out, when he went out in the evening I didn't know, because I didn't go into that room very often. I don't know whether he took it with him or not.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ever see him clean the rifle?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I said before I had never seen it before. But I think you understand. I want to help you, and that is why there is no reason for concealing anything. I will not be charged with anything.

Mr. Gopadze. She says she was not sworn in before. But now inasmuch as she is sworn in, she is going to tell the truth.

Mr. Rankin. Did you see him clean the rifle a number of times?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Could you help us by giving some estimate of the times as you remember it?

Mrs. Oswald. About four times—about four or five times, I think.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband ever tell you why he was cleaning the—that is, that he had been using it and needed to be cleaned after use?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I did not ask him, because I thought it was quite normal that when you have a rifle you must clean it from time to time.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ever observe your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street?

Mrs. Oswald. Now, I think that he probably did sometimes, but I never did see it. You must understand that sometimes I would be in the kitchen and he would be in his room downstairs, and he would say bye-bye, I will be back soon, and he may have taken it. He probably did. Perhaps he purely waited for an occasion when he could take it away without my seeing it.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ever observe that the rifle had been taken out of the apartment at Neely Street—that is, that it was gone?

Mrs. Oswald. Before the incident with General Walker, I know that Lee was preparing for something. He took photographs of that house and he told me not to enter his room. I didn't know about these photographs, but when I came into the room once in general he tried to make it so that I would spend less time in that room. I noticed that quite accidentally one time when I was cleaning the room he tried to take care of it himself.

I asked him what kind of photographs are these, but he didn't say anything to me.

Mr. Rankin. That is the photographs of the Walker house that you were asking about?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. Later, after he had fired, he told me about it.

I didn't know that he intended to do it—that he was planning to do it.

Mr. Rankin. Did you learn at any time that he had been practicing with the rifle?

Mrs. Oswald. I think that he went once or twice. I didn't actually see him take the rifle, but I knew that he was practicing.

Mr. Rankin. Could you give us a little help on how you knew?

Mrs. Oswald. He told me. And he would mention that in passing—it isn't as if he said, "Well, today I am going"—it wasn't as if he said, "Well, today I am going to take the rifle and go and practice."

But he would say, "Well, today I will take the rifle along for practice."

Therefore, I don't know whether he took it from the house or whether perhaps he even kept the rifle somewhere outside. There was a little square, sort of a little courtyard where he might have kept it.

When you asked me about the rifle, I said that Lee didn't have a rifle, but he also had a gun, a revolver.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall when he first had the pistol, that you remember?

Mrs. Oswald. He had that on Neely Street, but I think that he acquired the rifle before he acquired the pistol. The pistol I saw twice—once in his room, and the second time when I took these photographs.

Mr. Rankin. What period of time was there between when he got the rifle and you learned of it, and the time that you first learned about the pistol?

Mrs. Oswald. I can't say.

Mr. Rankin. When you testified about his practicing with the rifle, are you describing a period when you were still at Neely Street?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know where he practiced with the rifle?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know where. I don't know the name of the place where this took place. But I think it was somewhere out of town. It seems to me a place called Lopfield.

Mr. Rankin. Would that be at the airport—Love Field?

Mrs. Oswald. Love Field.

Mr. Rankin. So you think he was practicing out in the open and not at a rifle range?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall seeing the rifle when the telescopic lens was on it?

Mrs. Oswald. I hadn't paid any attention initially.

I know a rifle was a rifle. I didn't know whether or not it had a telescope attached to it. But the first time I remember seeing it was in New Orleans, where I recognized the telescope. But probably the telescope was on before. I simply hadn't paid attention.

I hope you understand. When I saw it, I thought that all rifles have that.

Mr. Rankin. Did you make any objection to having the rifle around?

Mrs. Oswald. Of course.

Mr. Rankin. What did he say to that?

Mrs. Oswald. That for a man to have a rifle—since I am a woman, I don't understand him, and I shouldn't bother him. A fine life.

Mr. Rankin. Is that the same rifle that you are referring to that you took the picture of with your husband and when he had the pistol, too?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I asked him then why he had dressed himself up like that, with the rifle and the pistol, and I thought that he had gone crazy, and he said he wanted to send that to a newspaper. This was not my business—it was man's business.

If I had known these were such dangerous toys, of course—you understand that I thought that Lee had changed in that direction, and I didn't think it was a serious occupation with him, just playing around.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol?

Mrs. Oswald. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly. Because I didn't attach any significance to it at the time. That was the only time I took any pictures.

I don't know how to take pictures. He gave me a camera and asked me—if someone should ask me how to photograph, I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. Was it on a day off that you took the picture?

Mrs. Oswald. It was on a Sunday.

Mr. Rankin. How did it occur? Did he come to you and ask you to take the picture?

Mrs. Oswald. I was hanging up diapers, and he came up to me with the rifle and I was even a little scared, and he gave me the camera and asked me to press a certain button.

Mr. Rankin. And he was dressed up with a pistol at the same time, was he?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. You have examined that picture since, and noticed that the telescopic lens was on at the time the picture was taken, have you not?

Mrs. Oswald. Now I paid attention to it. A specialist would see it immediately, of course. But at that time I did not pay any attention at all. I saw just Lee. These details are of great significance for everybody, but for me at that time it didn't mean anything. At the time that I was questioned, I had even forgotten that I had taken two photographs. I thought there was only one. I thought that there were two identical pictures, but they turned out to be two different poses.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have anything to do with the prints of the photograph after the prints were made? That is, did you put them in a photographic album yourself?

Mrs. Oswald. Lee gave me one photograph and asked me to keep it for June somewhere. Of course June doesn't need photographs like that.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall how long after that the Walker matter occurred?

Mrs. Oswald. Two, perhaps three weeks later. I don't know. You know better when this happened.

Mr. Rankin. How did you first learn that your husband had shot at General Walker?

Mrs. Oswald. That evening he went out, I thought that he had gone to his classes or perhaps that he just walked out or went out on his own business. It got to be about 10 or 10:30, he wasn't home yet, and I began to be worried. Perhaps even later.

Then I went into his room. Somehow, I was drawn into it—you know—I was pacing around. Then I saw a note there.

Mr. Rankin. Did you look for the gun at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I didn't understand anything. On the note it said, "If I am arrested" and there are certain other questions, such as, for example, the key to the mailbox is in such and such a place, and that he left me some money to last me for some time, and I couldn't understand at all what can he be arrested for. When he came back I asked him what had happened. He was very pale. I don't remember the exact time, but it was very late.

And he told me not to ask him any questions. He only told me that he had shot at General Walker.

Of course I didn't sleep all night. I thought that any minute now, the police will come. Of course I wanted to ask him a great deal. But in his state I decided I had best leave him alone—it would be purposeless to question him.

Mr. Rankin. Did he say any more than that about the shooting?

Mrs. Oswald. Of course in the morning I told him that I was worried, and that we can have a lot of trouble, and I asked him, "Where is the rifle? What did you do with it?"

He said, that he had left it somewhere, that he had buried it, it seems to me, somewhere far from that place, because he said dogs could find it by smell.

I don't know—I am not a criminologist.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you why he had shot at General Walker?

Mrs. Oswald. I told him that he had no right to kill people in peacetime, he had no right to take their life because not everybody has the same ideas as he has. People cannot be all alike.

He said that this was a very bad man, that he was a fascist, that he was the leader of a fascist organization, and when I said that even though all of that might be true, just the same he had no right to take his life, he said if someone had killed Hitler in time it would have saved many lives. I told him that this is no method to prove your ideas, by means of a rifle.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ask him how long he had been planning to do this?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. He said he had been planning for two months. Yes—perhaps he had planned to do so even earlier, but according to his conduct I could tell he was planning—he had been planning this for two months or perhaps a little even earlier.

The Chairman. Would you like to take a little recess?

Mrs. Oswald. No, thank you. Better to get it over with.

Mr. Rankin. Did he show you a picture of the Walker house then?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. That was after the shooting?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. He had a book—he had a notebook in which he noted down quite a few details. It was all in English, I didn't read it. But I noticed the photograph. Sometimes he would lock himself in his room and write in the book. I thought that he was writing some other kind of memoirs, as he had written about his life in the Soviet Union.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ever read that book?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know of anything else he had in it besides this Walker house picture?

Mrs. Oswald. No. Photographs and notes, and I think there was a map in there.

Mr. Rankin. There was a map of the area where the Walker house was?

Mrs. Oswald. It was a map of Dallas, but I don't know where Walker lived. Sometimes evenings he would be busy with this. Perhaps he was calculating something, but I don't know. He had a bus schedule and computed something.

After this had happened, people thought that he had a car, but he had been using a bus.

Mr. Rankin. Did he explain to you about his being able to use a bus just as well as other people could use a car—something of that kind?

Mrs. Oswald. No. Simply as a passenger. He told me that even before that time he had gone also to shoot, but he had returned. I don't know why. Because on the day that he did fire, there was a church across the street and there were many people there, and it was easier to merge in the crowd and not be noticed.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ask him about this note that he had left, what he meant by it?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes—he said he had in mind that if in case he were arrested, I would know what to do.

Mr. Rankin. The note doesn't say anything about Walker, does it?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ask him if that is what he meant by the note?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, because as soon as he came home I showed him the note and asked him "What is the meaning of this?"

Mr. Rankin. And that is when he gave you the explanation about the Walker shooting?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

I know that on a Sunday he took the rifle, but I don't think he fired on a Sunday. Perhaps this was on Friday. So Sunday he left and took the rifle.

Mr. Rankin. If the Walker shooting was on Wednesday, does that refresh your memory as to the day of the week at all?

Mrs. Oswald. Refresh my memory as to what?

Mr. Rankin. As to the day of the shooting?

Mrs. Oswald. It was in the middle of the week.

Mr. Rankin. Did he give any further explanation of what had happened that evening?

Mrs. Oswald. When he fired, he did not know whether he had hit Walker or not. He didn't take the bus from there. He ran several kilometers and then took the bus. And he turned on the radio and listened, but there were no reports.

The next day he bought a paper and there he read it was only chance that saved Walker's life. If he had not moved, he might have been killed.

Mr. Rankin. Did he comment on that at all?

Mrs. Oswald. He said only that he had taken very good aim, that it was just chance that caused him to miss. He was very sorry that he had not hit him.

I asked him to give me his word that he would not repeat anything like that. I said that this chance shows that he must live and that he should not be shot at again. I told him that I would save the note and that if something like that should be repeated again, I would go to the police and I would have the proof in the form of that note.

He said he would not repeat anything like that again.

By the way, several days after that, the De Mohrenschildts came to us, and as soon as he opened the door he said, "Lee, how is it possible that you missed?"

I looked at Lee. I thought that he had told De Mohrenschildt about it. And Lee looked at me, and he apparently thought that I had told De Mohrenschildt about it. It was kind of dark. But I noticed—it was in the evening, but I noticed that his face changed, that he almost became speechless.

You see, other people knew my husband better than I did. Not always—but in this case.

Mr. Rankin. Was De Mohrenschildt a friend that he told—your husband told him personal things that you knew of?

Mrs. Oswald. He asked Lee not because Lee had told him about it, but I think because he is smart enough man to have been able to guess it. I don't know—he is simply a liberal, simply a man. I don't think that he is being accused justly of being a Communist.

Mr. Rankin. That is De Mohrenschildt that you refer to?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did you tell the authorities anything about this Walker incident when you learned about it?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. You have told the Secret Service or the FBI people reasons why you didn't. Will you tell us?

Mrs. Oswald. Why I did not tell about it?

First, because it was my husband. As far as I know, according to the local laws here, a wife cannot be a witness against her husband. But, of course, if I had known that Lee intended to repeat something like that, I would have told.

Mr. Rankin. Did he ask you to return the note to him?

Mrs. Oswald. He forgot about it. But apparently after that he thought that what he had written in his book might be proof against him, and he destroyed it.

Mr. Rankin. That is this book that you have just referred to in which he had the Walker house picture?

Mrs. Oswald. There was a notebook, yes, that is the one.

Mr. Rankin. What did you do with the note that he had left for you after you talked about it and said you were going to keep it?

Mrs. Oswald. I had it among my things in a cookbook. But I have two—I don't remember in which.

Mr. Rankin. Did your relations with your husband change after this Walker incident?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Will you describe to us the changes as you observed them?

Mrs. Oswald. Soon after that, Lee lost his job—I don't know for what reason. He was upset by it. And he looked for work for several days. And then I insisted that it would be better for him to go to New Orleans where he had relatives. I insisted on that because I wanted to get him further removed from Dallas and from Walker, because even though he gave me his word, I wanted to have him further away, because a rifle for him was not a very good toy—a toy that was too enticing.

Mr. Rankin. Did you say that you wanted him to go to New Orleans because of the Walker incident?

Mrs. Oswald. No. I simply told him that I wanted to see his home town. He had been born there.

Mr. Rankin. When he promised you that he would not do anything like that again, did you then believe him?

Mrs. Oswald. I did not quite believe him inasmuch as the rifle remained in the house.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ask him to get rid of the rifle at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. After he shot at Walker, did you notice his taking the rifle out any more to practice?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall when you went to New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. I think it was in May. Lee went there himself, by himself. At that time, I became acquainted with Mrs. Paine, and I stayed with her while he was looking for work. In about one week Lee telephoned me that he had found a job and that I should come down.

Mr. Rankin. When did you first get acquainted with Mrs. Paine?

Mrs. Oswald. I think it was a couple of months earlier—probably in January.

Mr. Rankin. How did you happen to go to Mrs. Paine's house to stay? Did she invite you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes; she invited me. I had become acquainted with her through some Russian friends of ours. We had visited with some people, and she was there. Inasmuch as she was studying Russian, she invited me to stay with her.

Mr. Rankin. Did you pay her anything for staying with her?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I only repaid her in the sense that I helped her in the household and that I gave her Russian language lessons. This, in her words, was the very best pay that I could give her. And she wanted that I remain with her longer.

But, of course, it was better for me to be with my husband.

Mr. Rankin. How did your husband let you know that he had found a job?

Mrs. Oswald. He telephoned me.

Mr. Rankin. Did you then leave at once for New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And how did you get to New Orleans from Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. Mrs. Paine took me there in her car. She took her children and my things and we went there.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have much in the way of household goods to move?

Mrs. Oswald. Everything—we could put everything into one car. But, in fact, most of the things Lee had taken with him. Because he went by bus.

Mr. Rankin. Did he take the gun with him to New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember exactly, but it seems to me that it was not among my things.

Mr. Rankin. Where did you live at New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. Magazine Street. By the time I arrived there Lee already had rented an apartment.

Mr. Rankin. When Mrs. Paine brought you down to New Orleans, did she stay with you for any period of time?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, she was there for two days.

Mr. Rankin. How did Mrs. Paine and your husband get along? Were they friendly?

Mrs. Oswald. She was very good to us, to Lee and to me, and Lee was quite friendly with her, but he did not like her. I know that he didn't like her.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you why he didn't like her?

Mrs. Oswald. He considered her to be a stupid woman. Excuse me—these are not my words.

Mr. Rankin. Were you and Mrs. Paine good friends?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, so-so. I tried to help her as much as I could. But I also—I was—I did not like her too well. I also considered her not to be a very smart woman.

Mr. Rankin. I think it is about time for a recess, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Very well. We will take a recess for 10 minutes.

(Brief recess.)

The Chairman. The Committee will be in order.

Mr. Rankin, you may continue.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, did you discuss the Walker shooting with Mrs. Paine?

Mrs. Oswald. No. I didn't tell anyone. Apart from the FBI. That is after—that is later.

Mr. Rankin. When was it that you told the FBI about the Walker shooting?

Mrs. Oswald. About 2 weeks after Lee was killed.

Mr. Rankin. Before you went to New Orleans, had you seen anyone from the FBI?

Mrs. Oswald. The FBI visited us in Fort Worth when we lived on Mercedes Street.

Mr. Rankin. Was that in August 1962?

Mrs. Oswald. Probably.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know the names of the FBI agents that visited you then?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't remember that Lee had just returned from work and we were getting ready to have dinner when a car drove up and man introduced himself and asked Lee to step out and talk to him.

There was another man in the car. They talked for about 2 hours and I was very angry, because everything had gotten cold. This meant more work for me. I asked who these were, and he was very upset over the fact that the FBI was interested in him.

Mr. Rankin. Did that interview take place in the car?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband tell you what they said to him and what he said to them?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know to what extent this was true, but Lee said that the FBI had told him that in the event some Russians might visit him and would try to recruit him to work for them, he should notify the FBI agents. I don't know to what extent this was true. But perhaps Lee just said that.

Mr. Rankin. Did our husband say anything about the FBI asking him to work for them?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he didn't tell me.

Mr. Rankin. Did he say anything more about what they said to him in this interview?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he didn't tell me verbatim, but he said that they saw Communists in everybody and they are very much afraid and inasmuch as I had returned from Russia.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you that they had asked him whether he had acted as an agent or was asked to be an agent for the Russians?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall any other——

Mrs. Oswald. Excuse me. They did ask him about whether the Russians had proposed that he be an agent for them.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you what he said to them in that regard?

Mrs. Oswald. He told me that he had answered no.

Mr. Rankin. After this interview by the FBI agents, do you recall any later interview with them and yourself or your husband before you went to New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. No, there were no other interviews.

The next time was in Irving, when I lived with Mrs. Paine. But that is after I returned from New Orleans.

Mr. Rankin. At New Orleans, who did your husband work for?

Mrs. Oswald. He worked for the Louisiana Coffee Co. But I don't know in what capacity. I don't think that this was very good job, or perhaps more correctly, he did not—I know that he didn't like this job.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know what he received in pay from that job?

Mrs. Oswald. $1.35 an hour, I think. I am not sure.

Mr. Rankin. How long did he work for this coffee company?

Mrs. Oswald. I think it was from May until August, to the end of August.

Mr. Rankin. Was he discharged?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And then was he unemployed for a time?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. After you had discussed with your husband your going to Russia, was anything done about that?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I wrote a letter to the Soviet Embassy with a request to be permitted to return. And then it seems to me after I was already in New Orleans, I wrote another letter in which I told the Embassy that my husband wants to return with me.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall the date of the first letter that you just referred to?

Mrs. Oswald. No. But that is easily determined.

Mr. Rankin. Were you asking for a visa to return to Russia?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did you discuss with your husband his returning with you before you wrote the second letter that you have described?

Mrs. Oswald. I didn't ask him. He asked me to do so one day when he was extremely upset. He appeared to be very unhappy and he said that nothing keeps him here, and that he would not lose anything if he returned to the Soviet Union, and that he wants to be with me. And that it would be better to have less but not to be concerned about tomorrow, not to be worried about tomorrow.

Mr. Rankin. Was this a change in his attitude?

Mrs. Oswald. Towards me or towards Russia?

Mr. Rankin. Towards going to Russia.

Mrs. Oswald. I don't think that he was too fond of Russia, but simply that he knew that he would have work assured him there, because he had—after all, he had to think about his family.

Mr. Rankin. Did you know that he did get a passport?

Mrs. Oswald. It seems to me he always had a passport.

Mr. Rankin. While he was in New Orleans, that he got a passport?

Mrs. Oswald. Well, it seems to me that after we came here, he immediately received a passport. I don't know. I always saw his green passport. He even had two—one that had expired, and a new one.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know when the new one was issued?

Mrs. Oswald. No. It seems to me in the Embassy when we arrived. I don't know.

But please understand me correctly, I am not hiding this. I simply don't know.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know about a letter from your husband to the Embassy asking that his request for a visa be considered separately from yours?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't.

Mr. Rankin. When you were at New Orleans, did your husband go to school, that you knew of?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did he spend his earnings with you and your child?

Mrs. Oswald. Most of the time, yes. But I know that he became active with some kind of activity in a pro-Cuban committee. I hope that is what you are looking for.

Mr. Rankin. When did you first notice the rifle at New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. As soon as I arrived in New Orleans.

Mr. Rankin. Where was it kept there?

Mrs. Oswald. He again had a closet-like room with his things in it. He had his clothes hanging there, all his other belongings.

Mr. Rankin. Was the rifle in a cover there?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did you notice him take it away from your home there in New Orleans at any time?

Mrs. Oswald. No. I know for sure that he didn't. But I know that we had a kind of a porch with a—screened-in porch, and I know that sometimes evenings after dark he would sit there with his rifle. I don't know what he did with it. I came there by chance once and saw him just sitting there with his rifle. I thought he is merely sitting there and resting. Of course I didn't like these kind of little jokes.

Mr. Rankin. Can you give us an idea of how often this happened that you recall?

Mrs. Oswald. It began to happen quite frequently after he was arrested there in connection with some demonstration and handing out of leaflets.

Mr. Rankin. Was that the Fair Play for Cuba demonstration?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. From what you observed about his having the rifle on the back porch, in the dark, could you tell whether or not he was trying to practice with the telescopic lens?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I asked him why. But this time he was preparing to go to Cuba.

Mr. Rankin. That was his explanation for practicing with the rifle?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. He said that he would go to Cuba. I told him I was not going with him—that I would stay here.

Mr. Rankin. On these occasions when he was practicing with the rifle, would they be three or four times a week in the evening, after the Fair Play for Cuba incident?

Mrs. Oswald. Almost every evening. He very much wanted to go to Cuba and have the newspapers write that somebody had kidnapped an aircraft. And I asked him "For God sakes, don't do such a thing."

Mr. Rankin. Did he describe that idea to you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And when he told you of it, did he indicate that he wanted to be the one that would kidnap the airplane himself?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he wanted to do that. And he asked me that I should help him with that. But I told him I would not touch that rifle.

This sounds very merry, but I am very much ashamed of it.

Mr. Rankin. Did you tell him that using the rifle in this way, talking about it, was not in accordance with his agreement with you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. What did he say about that?

Mrs. Oswald. He said that everything would go well. He was very self-reliant—if I didn't want to.

Mr. Rankin. Was there any talk of divorce during this period?

Mrs. Oswald. No. During this time, we got along pretty well not counting the incidents with Cuba. I say relatively well, because we did not really have—generally he helped me quite a bit and was good to me. But, of course, I did not agree with his views.

Mr. Rankin. At this time in New Orleans did he discuss with you his views?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. What did he say about that?

Mrs. Oswald. Mostly—most of the conversations were on the subject of Cuba.

Mr. Rankin. Was there anything said about the United States—not liking the United States.

Mrs. Oswald. No. I can't say—he liked some things in Russia, he liked some other things here, didn't like some things there, and didn't like some things here.

And I am convinced that as much as he knew about Cuba, all he knew was from books and so on. He wanted to convince himself. But I am sure that if he had gone there, he would not have liked it there, either. Only on the moon, perhaps.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you what he didn't like about the United States?

Mrs. Oswald. First of all, he didn't like the fact that there are fascist organizations here. That was one thing.

The second thing, that it was hard to get an education and hard to find work. And that medical expenses were very high.

Mr. Rankin. Did he say who he blamed for this?

Mrs. Oswald. He didn't blame anyone.

Mr. Rankin. Did he ever say anything about President Kennedy?

Mrs. Oswald. No. At least—I was always interested in President Kennedy and had asked him many times to translate articles in a newspaper or magazine for me, and he always had something good to say. He translated it, but never did comment on it. At least in Lee's behavior—from Lee's behavior I cannot conclude that he was against the President, and therefore the thing is incomprehensible to me. Perhaps he hid it from me. I don't know. He said that after 20 years he would be prime minister. I think that he had a sick imagination—at least at that time I already considered him to be not quite normal—not always, but at times. I always tried to point out to him that he was a man like any others who were around us. But he simply could not understand that.

I tried to tell him that it would be better to direct his energies to some more practical matters, and not something like that.

Mr. Rankin. Can you tell us what you observed about him that caused you to think he was different?

Mrs. Oswald. At least his imagination, his fantasy, which was quite unfounded, as to the fact that he was an outstanding man. And then the fact that he was very much interested, exceedingly so, in autobiographical works of outstanding statesmen of the United States and others.

Mr. Rankin. Was there anything else of that kind that caused you to think that he was different?

Mrs. Oswald. I think that he compared himself to these people whose autobiographies he read. That seems strange to me, because it is necessary to have an education in order to achieve success of that kind. After he became busy with his pro-Cuban activity, he received a letter from somebody in New York, some Communist—probably from New York—I am not sure from where—from some Communist leader and he was very happy, he felt that this was a great man that he had received the letter from.

You see, when I would make fun of him, of his activity to some extent, in the sense that it didn't help anyone really, he said that I didn't understand him, and here, you see, was proof that someone else did, that there were people who understood his activity.

I would say that to Lee—that Lee could not really do much for Cuba, that Cuba would get along well without him, if they had to.

Mr. Rankin. You would tell that to him?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And what would he say in return?

Mrs. Oswald. He shrugged his shoulders and kept his own opinion. He was even interested in the airplane schedules, with the idea of kidnapping a plane. But I talked him out of it.

Mr. Rankin. The airplane schedules from New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. New Orleans—but—from New Orleans—leaving New Orleans in an opposite direction. And he was going to make it turn around and go to Cuba.

Mr. Rankin. He discussed this with you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. When did his Fair Play for Cuba activity occur—before or after he lost his job?

Mrs. Oswald. After he lost his job. I told him it would be much better if he were working, because when he didn't work he was busy with such foolishness.

Mr. Rankin. What did he say about that?

Mrs. Oswald. Nothing. And it is at that time that I wrote a letter to Mrs. Paine telling her that Lee was out of work, and they invited me to come and stay with her. And when I left her, I knew that Lee would go to Mexico City. But, of course, I didn't tell Mrs. Paine about it.

Mr. Rankin. Had he discussed with you the idea of going to Mexico City?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. When did he first discuss that?

Mrs. Oswald. I think it was in August.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you why he wanted to go to Mexico City?

Mrs. Oswald. From Mexico City he wanted to go to Cuba—perhaps through the Russian Embassy in Mexico somehow he would be able to get to Cuba.

Mr. Rankin. Did he say anything about going to Russia by way of Cuba?

Mrs. Oswald. I know that he said that in the embassy. But he only said so. I know that he had no intention of going to Russia then.

Mr. Rankin. How do you know that?

Mrs. Oswald. He told me. I know Lee fairly well—well enough from that point of view.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you that he was going to Cuba and send you on to Russia?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he proposed that after he got to Cuba, that I would go there, too, somehow.

But he also said that after he was in Cuba, and if he might go to Russia, he would let me know in any case.

Mr. Rankin. Did he discuss Castro and the Cuban Government with you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. When did he start to do that?

Mrs. Oswald. At the time that he was busy with that pro-Cuban activity. He was sympathetic to Castro while in Russia, and I have also a good opinion of Castro to the extent that I know. I don't know anything bad about him.

Mr. Rankin. What did he say about Castro to you?

Mrs. Oswald. He said that he is a very smart statesman, very useful for his government, and very active.

Mr. Rankin. What did you say to him?

Mrs. Oswald. I said, "Maybe." It doesn't make any difference to me.

Mr. Rankin. Did you know he was writing to the Fair Play for Cuba organization in New York during this latter period in New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did he show you that correspondence?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. How did you learn that?

Mrs. Oswald. He told me about it. Or, more correctly, I saw that he was writing to them.

Mr. Rankin. Did you write the Russian Embassy in regard to your visa from New Orleans.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall what address you gave in New Orleans when you wrote?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't remember. Sometimes I would write a letter, but Lee would insert the address and would mail the letters. That is why I don't remember.

Mr. Rankin. Did you get your mail in New Orleans at your apartment or at a post office box?

Mrs. Oswald. No, we had a post office box, and that is where we received our mail.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband have any organization in his Fair Play for Cuba at New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he had no organization. He was alone. He was quite alone.

Mr. Rankin. When did you learn about his arrest there?

Mrs. Oswald. The next day, when he was away from home overnight and returned, he told me he had been arrested.

Mr. Rankin. What did he say about it?

Mrs. Oswald. He was smiling, but in my opinion he was upset. I think that after that occurrence—he became less active, he cooled off a little.

Mr. Rankin. Less active in the Fair Play for Cuba?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. He continued it, but more for a person's sake. I think that his heart was no longer in it.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you that the FBI had seen him at the jail in New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did he complain about his arrest and say it was unfair, anything of that kind.

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did you know he paid a fine?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have anything to do with trying to get him out of jail?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

He was only there for 24 hours. He paid his fine and left. He said that the policeman who talked to him was very kind, and was a very good person.

Mr. Rankin. While you were in New Orleans, did you get to know the Murrets?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. They are his relatives. I think that Lee engaged in this activity primarily for purposes of self-advertising. He wanted to be arrested. I think he wanted to get into the newspapers, so that he would be known.

Mr. Rankin. Do you think he wanted to be advertised and known as being in support of Cuba before he went to Cuba?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you think he thought that would help him when he got to Cuba?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you anything about that, or is that just what you guess?

Mrs. Oswald. He would collect the newspaper clippings about his—when the newspapers wrote about him, and he took these clippings with him when he went to Mexico.

Mr. Rankin. Did the Murrets come to visit you from time to time in New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes—sometimes they came to us, and sometimes we went to them.

Mr. Rankin. Was that a friendly relationship?

Mrs. Oswald. I would say that they were more of a family relationship type. They were very good to us. His uncle, that is the husband of his aunt, was a very good man. He tried to reason with Lee after that incident. Lee liked them very much as relatives but he didn't like the fact that they were all very religious.

When his uncle, or, again, the husband of his aunt would tell him that he must approach things with a more serious attitude, and to worry about himself and his family, Lee would say, "Well, these are just bourgeois, who are only concerned with their own individual welfare."

Mr. Krimer. The word Mrs. Oswald used is not quite bourgeois, but it is a person of a very narrow viewpoint who is only concerned with his own personal interests, inclined to be an egotist.

Mr. Rankin. Did you hear the discussion when the uncle talked about this Fair Play for Cuba and his activities?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. What did the uncle say to your husband about that?

Mrs. Oswald. At that time. I did not know English too well, and Lee would not interpret for me. He only nodded his head. But I knew that he did not agree with his uncle. His uncle said that he condemned that kind of activity.

Mr. Rankin. What was your husband's attitude about your learning English?

Mrs. Oswald. He never talked English to me at home, and did not give me any instruction. This was strictly my own business. But he did want me to learn English. But that was my own concern. I had to do that myself somehow. That is the truth.

Mr. Rankin. Did any of your Russian friends visit you at New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Outside of the Murrets, were there some people from New Orleans that visited you at your home in New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. Once or twice a woman visited who was a friend of Ruth Paine's. Ruth Paine has written her. She had written to Ruth Paine to find out whether she knew any Russians there. And once or twice this woman visited us. But other than that, no one.

Mr. Rankin. What was the name of this woman?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember. I only remember that her first name is also Ruth.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband have friends of his that visited you there at New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. No, never.

Once some time after Lee was arrested, on a Saturday or a Sunday morning, a man came early and questioned Lee about the activity of the allegedly existing organization, which really did not exist. Because in the newspaper accounts Lee was described as a member and even the leader of that organization, which in reality did not exist at all.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know who that was?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't. I asked Lee who that was, and he said that is probably some anti-Cuban, or perhaps an FBI agent. He represented himself as a man who was sympathetic to Cuba but Lee did not believe him.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband ever tell you what he told the FBI agent when they came to the jail to see him?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. After you wrote Mrs. Paine, did she come at once in response to your letter to take you back to Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. Not quite at once. She came about a month later. She apparently was on vacation at that time, and said that she would come after her vacation.

Mr. Rankin. Didn't she indicate that she was going to come around September 30, and then came a little before that?

Mrs. Oswald. No. In her letter to me she indicated that she would come either the 20th or the 21st of September, and she did come at that time.

Mr. Rankin. Did you move your household goods in her station wagon at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know whether or not the rifle was carried in the station wagon?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, it was.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have anything to do with loading it in there?

Mrs. Oswald. No. Lee was loading everything on because I was pregnant at the time. But I know that Lee loaded the rifle on.

Mr. Rankin. Was the rifle carried in some kind of a case when you went back with Mrs. Paine?

Mrs. Oswald. After we arrived. I tried to put the bed, the child's crib together, the metallic parts, and I looked for a certain part, and I came upon something wrapped in a blanket. I thought that was part of the bed, but it turned out to be the rifle.

Mr. Rankin. Do you remember whether the pistol was carried back in Mrs. Paine's car too?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know where the pistol was.

Mr. Rankin. Before you went back to Mrs. Paine's house, did you discuss whether you would be paying her anything for board and room?

Mrs. Oswald. She proposed that I again live with her on the same conditions as before. Because this was more advantageous for her than to pay a school. She received better instruction that way.

In any case, she didn't spend any extra money for me—she didn't spend any more than she usually spent.

Mr. Rankin. Did you give her lessons in Russian?

Mrs. Oswald. No, these were not quite lessons. It was more in the nature of conversational practice. And then I also helped her to prepare Russian lessons for the purpose of teaching Russian.

Mr. Rankin. When you found the rifle wrapped in the blanket, upon your return to Mrs. Paine's, where was it located?

Mrs. Oswald. In the garage, where all the rest of the things were.

Mr. Rankin. In what part of the garage?

Mrs. Oswald. In that part which is closer to the street, because that garage is connected to the house. One door opens on the kitchen, and the other out in the street.

Mr. Rankin. Was the rifle lying down or was it standing up on the butt end?

Mrs. Oswald. No, it was lying down on the floor.

Mr. Rankin. When your husband talked about going to Mexico City, did he say where he was going to go there, who he would visit?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. He said that he would go to the Soviet Embassy and to the Cuban Embassy and would do everything he could in order to get to Cuba.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you where he would stay in Mexico City?

Mrs. Oswald. In a hotel.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you the name?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he didn't know where he would stop.

Mr. Rankin. Was there any discussion about the expense of making the trip?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. But we always lived very modestly, and Lee always had some savings. Therefore, he had the money for it.

Mr. Rankin. Did he say how much it would cost?

Mrs. Oswald. He had a little over $100 and he said that that would be sufficient.

Mr. Rankin. Did he talk about getting you a silver bracelet or any presents before he went?

Mrs. Oswald. It is perhaps more truth to say that he asked me what I would like, and I told him that I would like Mexican silver bracelets. But what he did buy me I didn't like at all. When he returned to Irving, from Mexico City, and I saw the bracelet, I was fairly sure that he had bought it in New Orleans and not in Mexico City, because I had seen bracelets like that for sale there. That is why I am not sure that the bracelet was purchased in Mexico.

Lee had an identical bracelet which he had bought in either Dallas or New Orleans. It was a man's bracelet.

Mr. Rankin. The silver bracelet he gave you when he got back had your name on it, did it not?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Was it too small?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I was offended because it was too small, and he promised to exchange it. But, of course, I didn't want to hurt him, and I said, thank you, the important thing is the thought, the attention.

Mr. Rankin. Did he discuss other things that he planned to do in Mexico City, such as see the bullfights or jai alai games or anything of that kind?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I was already questioned about this game by the FBI, but I never heard of it. But I had asked Lee to buy some Mexican records, but he did not do that.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know how he got to Mexico City?

Mrs. Oswald. By bus.

Mr. Rankin. And did he return by bus, also?

Mrs. Oswald. It seems, yes. Yes, he told me that a round-trip ticket was cheaper than two one-way tickets.

Mr. Rankin. Did you learn that he had a tourist card to go to Mexico?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. If he had such a card, you didn't know it then?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. After he had been to Mexico City, did he come back to Irving or to Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. When Lee returned I was already in Irving and he telephoned me. But he told me that he had arrived the night before and had spent the night in Dallas, and called me in the morning.

Mr. Rankin. Did he say where he had been in Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. It seems to me at the YMCA.

Mr. Rankin. Did he come right out to see you then?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you anything about his trip to Mexico City?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he told me that he had visited the two embassies, that he had received nothing, that the people who are there are too much—too bureaucratic. He said that he has spent the time pretty well. And I had told him that if he doesn't accomplish anything to at least take a good rest. I was hoping that the climate, if nothing else, would be beneficial to him.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ask him what he did the rest of the time?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I think he said that he visited a bull fight, that he spent most of his time in museums, and that he did some sightseeing in the city.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you about anyone that he met there?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

He said that he did not like the Mexican girls.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you anything about what happened at the Cuban Embassy, or consulate?

Mrs. Oswald. No. Only that he had talked to certain people there.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you what people he talked to?

Mrs. Oswald. He said that he first visited the Soviet Embassy in the hope that having been there first this would make it easier for him at the Cuban Embassy. But there they refused to have anything to do with him.

Mr. Rankin. And what did he say about the visit to the Cuban Embassy or consulate?

Mrs. Oswald. It was quite without results.

Mr. Rankin. Did he complain about the consular or any of the officials of the Cuban Embassy and the way they handled the matter?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he called them bureaucrats. He said that the Cubans seemed to have a system similar to the Russians—too much red tape before you get through there.

Mr. Rankin. Is there anything else that he told you about the Mexico City trip that you haven't related?

Mrs. Oswald. No, that is all that I can remember about it.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall how long he was gone on his trip to Mexico City?

Mrs. Oswald. All of this took approximately 2 weeks, from the time that I left New Orleans, until the time that he returned.

Mr. Rankin. And from the time he left the United States to go to Mexico City to his return, was that about 7 days?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. He said he was there for about a week.

Mr. Rankin. When you were asked before about the trip to Mexico, you did not say that you knew anything about it. Do you want to explain to the Commission how that happened?

Mrs. Oswald. Most of these questions were put to me by the FBI. I do not like them too much. I didn't want to be too sincere with them. Though I was quite sincere and answered most of their questions. They questioned me a great deal, and I was very tired of them, and I thought that, well, whether I knew about it or didn't know about it didn't change matters at all, it didn't help anything, because the fact that Lee had been there was already known, and whether or not I knew about it didn't make any difference.

Mr. Rankin. Was that the only reason that you did not tell about what you knew of the Mexico City trip before?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, because the first time that they asked me I said no, I didn't know anything about it. And in all succeeding discussions I couldn't very well have said I did. There is nothing special in that. It wasn't because this was connected with some sort of secret.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband stay with you at the Paines after that first night when he returned from Mexico?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, he stayed overnight there.

And in the morning we took him to Dallas.

Mr. Rankin. And by "we" who do you mean?

Mrs. Oswald. Ruth Paine, I and her children.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know what he did in Dallas, then?

Mrs. Oswald. He intended to rent an apartment in the area of Oak Cliff, and to look for work.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know whether he did that?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I know that he always tried to get some work. He was not lazy.

Mr. Rankin. Did he rent the apartment?

Mrs. Oswald. On the same day he rented a room, not an apartment, and he telephoned me and told me about it.

Mr. Rankin. Did you discuss the plans for this room before you took him to Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. No. I asked him where he would live, and he said it would be best if he rented a room, it would not be as expensive as an apartment.

Mr. Rankin. Did he say anything about whether you would be living with him, or he would be living there alone?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I did not really want to be with Lee at that time, because I was expecting, and it would have been better to be with a woman who spoke English and Russian.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know where your husband looked for work in Dallas at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. No. He tried to get any kind of work. He answered ads, newspaper ads.

Mr. Rankin. Did he have trouble finding work again?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. How long after his return was it before he found a job?

Mrs. Oswald. Two to three weeks.

Mr. Rankin. When he was unemployed in New Orleans, did he get unemployment compensation?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know how much he was getting then?

Mrs. Oswald. $33 a week. It is possible to live on that money. One can fail to find work and live. Perhaps you don't believe me. It is not bad to rest and receive money.

Mr. Rankin. When he was unemployed in Dallas, do you know whether he received unemployment compensation?

Mrs. Oswald. We were due to receive unemployment compensation, but it was getting close to the end of his entitlement period, and we received one more check.

Mr. Rankin. Did you discuss with him possible places of employment after his return from Mexico?

Mrs. Oswald. No. That was his business. I couldn't help him in that. But to some extent I did help him find a job, because I was visiting Mrs. Paine's neighbors. There was a woman there who told me where he might find some work.

Mr. Rankin. And when was this?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember. If that is important, I can try and ascertain date. But I think you probably know.

Mr. Rankin. Was it shortly before he obtained work?

Mrs. Oswald. As soon as we got the information, the next day he went there and he did get the job.

Mr. Rankin. And who was it that you got the information from?

Mrs. Oswald. It was the neighbor whose brother was employed by the school book depository. He said it seemed to him there was a vacancy there.

Mr. Rankin. What was his name?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know.

The Chairman. Well, I think we have arrived at our adjournment time. We will recess now until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)